easy to obtain copies of this book.
There is a new edition of Allen's and Drummond's
books which Mel B. published in 2004 (see
http://hindsfoot.org/kML3rc1.html).
Allen's book in particular hits many of the same
themes which appear in Emmet Fox. This early
twentieth century approach to spirituality was
called New Thought. Many early AA members were
strongly influenced by New Thought in their
interpretation of the AA program. The Unity
Church of Peace is one group which still teaches
a New Thought approach to spirituality.
(This is NOT the same as "New Age," which means
magic crystals and channeling and all that sort of
thiing.)
The Detroit Pamphlet (the Detroit version of the
Table Leader's Guide, a widely used set of early
A.A. beginners lessons) had a long passage from
Emmet Fox at the end, called "Staying on the
Beam." ***
________________________________
Can any members of the group give us other references
to Emmet Fox's Sermon on the Mount in early AA
literature?
There was one weekly meeting in early AA in South
Bend, Indiana, where I live, which read Emmet Fox's
book during their meetings, and insisted that
everybody in the AA group be thoroughly familiar
with that book.
________________________________
*** STAYING ON THE BEAM, by Emmet Fox
(http://hindsfoot.org/Detr4.html)
Today most commercial flying is done on a radio beam. A
directional beam is produced to guide the pilot to his destination,
and as long as he keeps on this beam he knows that he is safe, even if
he cannot see around him for fog, or get his bearings in any other
way.
As soon as he gets off the beam in any direction he is in danger,
and he immediately tries to get back on to the beam once more.
Those who believe in the All-ness of God, have a spiritual beam
upon which to navigate on the voyage of life. As long as you have
peace of mind and some sense of the Presence of God you are on the
beam, and you are safe, even if outer things seem to be confused or
even very dark; but as soon as you get off the beam you are in danger.
You are off the beam the moment you are angry or resentful or
jealous or frightened or depressed; and when such a condition arises
you should immediately get back on the beam by turning quietly to God
in thought, claiming His Presence, claiming that His Love and
Intelligence are with you, and that the promises in the Bible are true
today.
If you do this you are back on the beam, even if outer conditions
and your own feelings do not change immediately. You are back on the
beam and you will reach port in safety.
Keep on the beam and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Yahoo! Groups Links
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++++Message 3338. . . . . . . . . . . . The "heavy sedative" in Bill''s
story (BB p. 7)
From: trixiebellaa . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 11:18:00 AM
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Hi history lovers, can anyone tell us what was
the "heavy sedative" that was prescribed to Bill
on page 7 in the Big Book where he said:
"Next day found me drinking both gin and sedative.
This combination soon landed me on the rocks."
Thanks for you help in this matter.
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++++Message 3339. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W.''s talk at Rockland
State Hospital
From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 8:36:00 AM
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As I recall (though 30 years is a long time),
there was a copy of that presentation in the
AA archives. Someone at GSO may be able to
speak to that.
ernie kurtz
__________________________
bludahlia2003 wrote:
> Anyone know where I might find information about
> the presentation that Bill W gave to the Board
> Meeting at Rockland State Hospital (now known as
> Rockland Psychiatric Center) in 1939?
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++++Message 3340. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Emmet Fox
From: Mel Barger . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 5:44:00 PM
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Hi Matt,
I asked Bill Wilson about Emmet Fox and he said
they even attended his lectures in New York in the
1930s. He also said they read The Sermon on the
Mount.
I found my own copy of it in Pontiac, Michigan, in
February, 1951, and have read it ever since.
Mike E., the second member of AA in Detroit, even
told of reading it while he was still getting well
from his last drunk; he had to rest it on pillow
to hold it steady!
I regret that the unfortunate prejudice against
literature that isn't conference-approved has
eliminated this any several other good books from
most meetings. I recommend it whenever I can and
sometimes mention it in talks.
Mel Barger
___________________________
Note from the moderator:
See Mel's little article on Emmet Fox at
http://hindsfoot.org/Fox1.html
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++++Message 3341. . . . . . . . . . . . Emmet Fox mentioned by name in the
Big Book
From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 7:11:00 PM
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Dr. Earl Marsh, in his Big Book story "Physician
Heal Thyself," mentions Emmet Fox's then, and
still, popular book "SERMON ON THE MOUNT."
See page 348 of the third edition of the Big Book.
Bob S., from Indiana
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++++Message 3342. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Joe and Charlie tapes online
From: Ricky Holcomb . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2006 8:30:00 AM
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I agree, I know Joe personally and have never
viewed him as a person who is trying to get
anybody to believe that the success rate in AA
was any different than now--what I have learned
from him is that he feels strongly about trying
to get alcoholics to really try the steps and
have a life changing experience rather than just
attending meetings and trying to not drink.
Ricky H.
________________________________
Doug B." wrote:
Billy-Bob and Jim,
The Joe and Charlie Big Book studies that I have attended
in the past were nothing like you suggested in your response.
They were keeping it very simple and didn't seem to be on
any crusade except that of actually having you read the book
for yourself.
Then again, I haven't been to one in ten years..maybe their
message has changed?
Doug B.
Riverside, CA
Ricky Holcomb
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++++Message 3343. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: The Exact Quote from Francis
Hartigan''s Book In Regard To Early AA''s Success
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2006 1:20:00 PM
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Ooops! I attached the wrong reply to Billy Bob's posting. Here's the
correction. I exchanged the info below with Billy Bob in a separate
email and would like to offer it for consideration:
Hi Billy Bob
I have Hartigan's book. The portion you emphasize illustrates the
matter of context I tried to address. Hartigan actually supports the
claim that 50% initially made it yet seems to try to portray a doom
and gloom scenario for early 1939. Hartigan should also have cited
Bill W's comments on the matter in 1955 in the 2nd edition Big Book.
29 stories were included in the 1st printing of the 1st edition Big
Book. 22 of them were dropped in the 2nd edition. There is a myth in
AA that the 22 stories were removed because the members had returned
to drinking. It's not true. In the introduction to the personal
stories in the 2nd edition Big Book Bill W wrote:
"When first published in 1939, this book carried 29 stories about
alcoholics. To secure maximum identification with the greatest number
of readers, the new 2nd Edition (1955) carries a considerably enlarged
story section, as above described. Concerning the original 29 case
histories, it is a deep satisfaction to record, as of 1955, that 22
have apparently made full recovery from their alcoholism. Of these, 15
have remained completely sober for an average of 17 years each,
according to our best knowledge and belief."
In the introduction to the "Pioneers of AA Section" in the 2nd
edition
Bill W went on to write:
"Dr Bob and the 12 men and women who here tell their stories were
among the early members of AA's first groups. Though 3 have passed
away of natural causes, all have maintained complete sobriety for
periods ranging from 15 to 19 years as of this date 1955. Today,
hundreds of additional AA members can be found who have had no relapse
for at least 15 years. All of these then are the pioneers of AA. They
bear witness that release from alcoholism can really be permanent."
From the figures in Bill W's introduction, approximately 75% of the
early members who had their stories in the 1st edition Big Book were
sober as of AA's 20th anniversary (1955). Even if half didn't
make it,
as asserted by Hartigan, the percentage that did is still consistent
with early claims of a 50% success rate.
The 1st edition story authors is the only fully qualified population
that demonstrates the claims that 50% made it and another 25% sobered
up again after returning to drinking.
Cheers
Arthur
-----Original Message-----
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
backtobasicsbillybob
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:51 PM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] The Exact Quote from Francis Hartigan's
Book In Regard To Early AA's Success
"We have to wonder why both the Wilson's and the Smiths did not simply
give up. Today the nations best treatment centers report success rates
ranging from 25 percent to 50 percent. During Bill's stay in Akron, he
and Bob calculated their success rate to be about 5 percent, and among
the few who seemed to catch on, not all of them were able to maintain
consistent sobriety. The first edition of AA's Big Book, published in
1939, contains the personal recovery stories of many of AA's earliest
members. Some years later, Bill made notations in the first copy of
the book to come off the press, indicating which of the individuals
portrayed therein had stayed sober. A good 50 percent had not."
Francis Hartigan, Bill W., Pages 91-92
Yahoo! Groups Links
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++++Message 3344. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: The Exact Quote From Dr. Bob''s
Memorial Service, Nov. 15th, 1952
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2006 1:17:00 PM
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I exchanged the info below with Billy Bob in a separate email and
would like to offer it for consideration:
Hi Billy Bob
I have Hartigan's book. The portion you emphasize illustrates the
matter of context I tried to address. Hartigan actually supports the
claim that 50% initially made it yet seems to try to portray a doom
and gloom scenario for early 1939. Hartigan should also have cited
Bill W's comments on the matter in 1955 in the 2nd edition Big Book.
29 stories were included in the 1st printing of the 1st edition Big
Book. 22 of them were dropped in the 2nd edition. There is a myth in
AA that the 22 stories were removed because the members had returned
to drinking. It's not true. In the introduction to the personal
stories in the 2nd edition Big Book Bill W wrote:
"When first published in 1939, this book carried 29 stories about
alcoholics. To secure maximum identification with the greatest number
of readers, the new 2nd Edition (1955) carries a considerably enlarged
story section, as above described. Concerning the original 29 case
histories, it is a deep satisfaction to record, as of 1955, that 22
have apparently made full recovery from their alcoholism. Of these, 15
have remained completely sober for an average of 17 years each,
according to our best knowledge and belief."
In the introduction to the "Pioneers of AA Section" in the 2nd
edition
Bill W went on to write:
"Dr Bob and the 12 men and women who here tell their stories were
among the early members of AA's first groups. Though 3 have passed
away of natural causes, all have maintained complete sobriety for
periods ranging from 15 to 19 years as of this date 1955. Today,
hundreds of additional AA members can be found who have had no relapse
for at least 15 years. All of these then are the pioneers of AA. They
bear witness that release from alcoholism can really be permanent."
From the figures in Bill W's introduction, approximately 75% of the
early members who had their stories in the 1st edition Big Book were
sober as of AA's 20th anniversary (1955). Even if half didn't
make it,
as asserted by Hartigan, the percentage that did is still consistent
with early claims of a 50% success rate.
The 1st edition story authors is the only fully qualified population
that demonstrates the claims that 50% made it and another 25% sobered
up again after returning to drinking.
Cheers
Arthur
-----Original Message-----
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
backtobasicsbillybob
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:18 PM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] The Exact Quote From Dr. Bob's Memorial
Service, Nov. 15th, 1952
"You haven't any conception these days of how much failure we had. How
you had to cull over hundreds of these drunks to get a handful to take
the bait. Yes, the discouragement's were very great but some did stay
sober and some very tough ones at that."
Bill Wilson, Dr. Bob's Memorial Speech, Nov. 1952, At The 24th Street
Club in New York City, New York.
To Thine Own Self Be True, Billy-Bob
Yahoo! Groups Links
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++++Message 3345. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Use of Dash in First Step
From: michael oates . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2006 6:42:00 PM
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Messages from Michael Oates, George Brown,
Tom E., and Rick Tompkins
______________________________
From: michael oates
(moates57 at yahoo.com)
A dash is an extra long comma used to hold the pause
before adding the new phrase or thought. That being
said maybe Bill really wanted us to think about the
preceding phrase before tackling the prase that
follows the dash. It seems that too many of us are
dealing with unmanageability rather than alcoholism a
dash is not an arrow.
______________________________
From: george brown
(gbaa487 at yahoo.com)
i might as well add to this discussion. the use of a
dash is to "emphasize and/or explain the main clause."
so. in this case it is explaining and emphasizing the
fact that we are "powerless over alcohol."
to my understanding it is explaining that when
we are powerless our lives become unmanageable;
it is also emphasizing that fact.
______________________________
From: Tom E.
(ny-aa at att.net)
Personally, I consider the dash--typists
sometimes called it a double-dash--to be
significant in Step 1.
IT IS, "1) We admitted we were powerless over
alcohol--that our lives had become unmanageable."
NOT, "1) We admitted we were powerless over
alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable."
NOT, "1) We admitted we were powerless over
alcohol because our lives had become unmanageable."
NOT, "1) We admitted we were powerless over
alcohol, therefore our lives had become unmanageable."
On the other hand, we are discussing the punctuation
"Bill chose" without asking who actually chose the
punctuation. As historians, we need to look further.
What was on his yellow pad when he dictated it to
Ruth Hock? Is that available to researchers? Was
Bill in the habit of dictating every comma, period,
dash, and paragraph break or did he just talk and
leave it to Ruth to get something meaningful out of
whatever he said? I believe it was the latter. So,
to what extent did Bill adjust what Ruth typed
to make punctuation and other details exactly the
way he wanted?
Even the draft that was distributed was the result
of much debate and compromise. We can't say that
every jot and tittle is the Revealed Word of Bill.
Actually, part of the strength of the A.A. Big Book
is that it is a consensus document. Every member
at the time and some outside friends had a say in
what was in the book.
Tom E
Wappingers Falls, NY
______________________________
From: ricktompkins@comcast.net
(ricktompkins at comcast.net)
Hi Art, we are in esoteric and mystical hot water,
obviously...
The colon use is correct in your posting; the colon
also could work in the dash-ing of Step One, as
could i.e. or e.g. The 1930s readers probably could
have handled any of them and future generations
(i.e. us) would have analyzed it as has gone on in
the past few posts here.
The dash separating the two phrases in Step One
is an esoteric emphasis, dontcha think? Perhaps the
original linotype operators enjoyed its use, too.
Hearing the step read as a part of "How It Works"
the dash sounds like a simple comma--thankfully
no one comes out and says "dash." Reading the text,
I always felt that the dash added real impact from
the first time I viewed it, and that impact remains
powerful to me today.
Two distinct concepts in Step One, placed in the
same sentence to drive home the idea that the latter
results from the former. Imagine that!
Esoterically, to me the two phrases work in reverse
sequence, too. I tell new prospects to consider
the dash as an equal sign, and the distributive
math principle kicks in as reinforcement. No balance
beam or seesaw analysis, please, it might bring on
a mysticism angle that's absent from this Step.
Cheers to all, hope a 2006 Springtime brings great
new discoveries to us!
Rick, Illinois
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++++Message 3346. . . . . . . . . . . . Monroe, Michigan
From: timderan . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/17/2006 3:56:00 AM
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Over the last few years there has been an off again and on again effort to
find out the history of AA in Monroe, Michigan. From what we can tell no
one has ever actually written down anything on it. We have some names and
an idea of when and where the first meetings were held. But, most of that
is sketchy.
It would be appreciated if anyone has any information that might be helpful
to forward it to me or post it on this message board.
Your help is greatly appreciated.
tmd
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3347. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Emmet Fox
From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/17/2006 10:14:00 PM
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At 09:02 4/16/2006 , you wrote:
>When/where I got sober (as they say), all of these were
still being
>suggested as essential reading (as well as the standard AA literature)
Big
>Book and the 12x12, etc, the little Black Book, Red Book and Green Book,
and
>Living Sober. By sponsors and my home group.
Would these books be Richmond Walker's 24 Hours a Day, Webster's Little Red
Book and Stools and Bottles? Big Book, 12x12, and Living Sober are
self-explanatory.
My wife spent her first 18y in NYC and she says they gave out Living Sober
to new people. I think that is a great idea. I could pick it up when I
was new and read a few pages and was unable to do the same with the Big
Book.
Tommy H
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3348. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Emmet Fox
From: Lee Nickerson . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/17/2006 11:28:00 PM
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I surely agree. I was fortunate to be Maine's Archivist for eight
years and by what seemed necessity, I began to do the unthinkable -
read non-conference approved literature. It enhanced my sobriety and
allowed me to do my service job in a much more informative and
interesting way. I picked up the habit and have been at it ever
since. I just finished a book called Drinking: A Love Story by
Caroline Knapp - one of the best personal stories I have read in a
long time. As far as AA history goes; Not God, Sister Ignatia:The
Angel Of AA, Grateful to Have Been There and so many others have
made my journey much more enlightened and joyful. Many of the books
I have read were recommended by Frank M. the late alcoholic
archivist of GSO. He was a truly sweet gentleman and I miss him to
this day.
lee
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Mel Barger"
wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
> I asked Bill Wilson about Emmet Fox and he said
> they even attended his lectures in New York in the
> 1930s. He also said they read The Sermon on the
> Mount.
>
> I found my own copy of it in Pontiac, Michigan, in
> February, 1951, and have read it ever since.
>
> Mike E., the second member of AA in Detroit, even
> told of reading it while he was still getting well
> from his last drunk; he had to rest it on pillow
> to hold it steady!
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