Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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| ++++Message 3029. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Alcohol left in food after
cooking
From: Doug B. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/7/2006 2:28:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I got this guide online: http://www.betterendings.org/Recipes/cookal.htm Cooking With Alcohol When cooking with beer or alcohol, does all of the alcohol evaporate? No. The following chart should be helpful. PREPARATION METHOD / AlcoholRetained No heat application, immediate consumption 100% No heat application, overnight storage 70% Alcohol ingredient added to boiling liquid, and removed from heat 85% Flamed 75% Baked, approximately 25 minutes, alcohol ingredient on surface of mixture (not stirred in) 45% Baked/simmered, alcohol ingredient stirred into mixture 15 minutes / 40% 30 minutes / 35% 1 hour / 25% 1.5 hours / 20% 2 hours / 10% 2.5 hours / 5%
without alcohol that will fill the need. If the beer or wine is a major ingredient in your recipe, or if a large quantity is called for, it makes sense not to attempt a substitute. The results could be unpleasant. In such a case, look for another recipe.
tablespoons, and in this case there are several substitutions: In recipes having plenty of seasonings, plan water may be substituted. Both the alcohol and a substitute may be omitted if the liquid isn't needed for a gravy or sauce.
stock may be substituted. Just remember, bottled clam juice and some fish stocks are high in salt. Some people use white grape juice with fish.
Juice such as lemon, lime, apple or cranberry are all possibilities. Reprinted from Fall 99 Issue Byerly's Bag Doug B. JOHN e REID wrote: > The Editorial Staff: The Grapevine, The Pathfinder, The Reviver, AA > Around Australia, NZ Mainstay, Bristol Fashion. > > Some years ago the Grapevine published the results of a study on how > much alcohol is retained in food after cooking. As Russ J who was "AA
> Number 5" in Australia used the say, "the half truths in AA".
> > Recently I heard some fairly newly sober saying to a gathering of > fairly new folk recently, "do not worry about how much alcohol is in > the food, it is ALL cooked out!!!!" > > For the benefit of us all, would you be so kind as to re-print the > results of that previous study? > > All the very best for 2006, Thanks and Kind Regards, John R > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
> > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Addiction recovery Recovery from Addiction recovery program addiction center Christian Alcoholics addiction recovery anonymous > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > + Visit your group "AAHistoryLovers" on the web. > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > AAHistoryLovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > + Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3030. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Alcohol left in food after cooking
From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/7/2006 8:37:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Does anyone know the name of this AA Grapevine article or when it was published? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of JOHN e REID Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 11:00 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Alcohol left in food after cooking The Editorial Staff: The Grapevine, The Pathfinder, The Reviver, AA Around Australia, NZ Mainstay, Bristol Fashion. Some years ago the Grapevine published the results of a study on how much alcohol is retained in food after cooking. As Russ J who was "AA Number 5" in Australia used the say, "the half truths in AA". Recently I heard some fairly newly sober saying to a gathering of fairly new folk recently, "do not worry about how much alcohol is in the food, it is ALL cooked out!!!!" For the benefit of us all, would you be so kind as to re-print the results of that previous study? All the very best for 2006, Thanks and Kind Regards, John R [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3031. . . . . . . . . . . . DSM-IV definitions: Abuse vs. Dependence (Alcoholism) From: ny-aa@att.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/5/2006 11:37:00 PM
"Alcohol Abuse [305]" and "Alcohol Depencence [303.9]" it is useful to look at the diagnostic definitions in what is called "DSM-IV" or "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, ed. 4" Here are two references to those definitions. Note: NIAAA (National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism) only classifies "Alcohol Depencence" as "Alcoholism" The two diagnoses are mutually exclusive. ---------------------- ---------------------- http://www.mentalhealthchannel.net/alcohol/diagnosis.shtml
notice problems and seek professional help. Many times, the alcoholic does not realize the severity of the problem or denies it. Some signs cannot go unnoticed, such as loss of a job, family problems, or citations for driving under the influence of alcohol. Dependence is indicated by symptoms such as withdrawal, injuries from accidents, or blackouts. The American Psychiatric Association has developed strict criteria for the clinical diagnosis of abuse and dependence. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual -- IV (DSM-IV) defines abuse as:
significant impairment or distress, as manifested by one (or more) of the following, occurring within a 12-month period: 1. recurrent substance use resulting in a failure to fulfill major role obligations at work, school, home (e.g., repeated absences or poor work performance related to substance use; substance-related absences, suspensions, or expulsions from school; neglect of children or household) 2. recurrent substance use in situations in which it is physically hazardous (e.g., driving an automobile or operating a machine when impaired by substance use) 3. recurrent substance-related legal problems (e.g., arrests for substance-related disorderly conduct) 4. continued substance use despite having persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects of the substance (e.g., arguments with spouse about consequences of intoxication, physical fights) * The symptoms have never met the criteria for Substance Dependence for this class of substances.
Washington DC: American Psychiatric Association (AMA). 1994.] Most often, abuse is diagnosed in individuals who recently began using alcohol. Over time, abuse may progress to dependence. However, some alcohol users abuse alcohol for long periods without developing dependence. Dependence is suspected when alcohol use is accompanied by signs of the following: * Abuse * Compulsive drinking behavior * Tolerance * Withdrawal DSM-IV defines dependence as: * A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period: 1. tolerance, as defined by either of the following: o a need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve intoxication or desired effect o markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of substance 2. withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following: o the characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance o the same (or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms 3. the substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended 4. there is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use 5. a great deal of time is spent in activities to obtain the substance, use the substance, or recover from its effects 6. important social, occupational or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of substance use 7. the substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (e.g., continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by alcohol consumption)
Washington DC: American Psychiatric Association (AMA). 1994.] ---------------------- ---------------------- http://www.fpnotebook.com/PSY91.htm
2. Hazardous use (e.g. Driving while intoxicated) 3. Legal problems related to alcohol use 4. Social or interpersonal problems due to alcohol # DSM-IV Alcohol Dependence (3 criteria for over 1 year) 1. Tolerance (increased drinking to achieve same effect) 2. Alcohol Withdrawal signs or symptoms 3. Drinking more than intended 4. Unsuccessful attempts to cut down on use 5. Excessive time related to alcohol (obtaining, hangover) 6. Impaired social or work activities due to alcohol 7. Use despite physical or psychological consequences
From: Russ S . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/5/2006 3:20:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dear History Lovers, I live in a town 10 miles from Green Pond, New Jersey. I would like to find the house Bill and Lois lived in before they moved to Stepping Stones. Any suggestions on where to start?
Dependence (Alcoholism) From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/7/2006 6:15:00 PM
defining guideline for alcoholism one must remember the following: The DSM does state that a person can remain in total remission from alcohol dependence and continue drinking as long as they do not exhibit the criteria used for the diagnosis of dependence. Abstinence from the use of beverage alcohol does not define remission.... the lack of exhibiting the criteria does. If one uses Alcoholics Anonymous and the DSM in the same manner they are not congruent. From: Mitchell K. (mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com) ________________________ Note from the moderator: Mitchell K. is one of our best AA historians, and an expert on the history of early AA in the Cleveland area, where there were more AA members at one point in early AA history than in either Akron or the New York area. He is responding here to two earlier messages.
Kurtz
recent
study by social scientists of how people who have been treated for alcoholism are doing 3 and 5 years afterwards, measured against how many AA meetings they
have been attending. Message 3031 "DSM-IV definitions: Abuse vs. Dependence (Alcoholism) " from
definitions of alcoholism used by social scientists, in this case the one currently used by psychiatrists and psychotherapists in the U.S. for diagnostic purposes, to help understand how modern social scientists would determine which people in a group whom they were studying were actually alcoholics. This can help us to understand the kinds of criteria used in the study in Message 2973. Mitchell K. in this present message (mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com) points out that NEITHER the social scientists who made the 3 and 5 year study, NOR the psychiatrists who wrote the
DSM, were employing exactly the same kinds of definitions of "real alcoholism" that are given in various places within the historic heritage of Alcoholics Anonymous. Mitchell's warning is important, and right on target. The AAHistoryLovers is not the right kind of forum for attacking the social scientists for not using AA definitions. We have worked hard over the years to try to keep the AAHL from becoming just a chat group (there are already plenty of AA chat groups on the internet). Those members of the AAHL who are AA members simply need to remember that the
social scientists are not necessarily using AA definitions, as Mitchell K. points out, and that any AA members reading articles written by social scientists will need to take that into account in evaluating that data.
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/7/2006 7:02:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Unfortunately, I believe there is a much more serious and disconcerting side to James H and his affiliation as the poster child for the "Back to Basics" (B2B) organization.
manufacturing an idyllic scenario portraying the AA program of Recovery in the "old days" and then manufacturing a contrasting scenario bemoaning that "today" it's all different and has gone downhill.
present fiction as history. The B2B practices are: (1) portrayal of the figurative as the literal (2) broad brush portrayal of the exception as the rule (3) portrayal of simple associations as established cause and effect and (4) portrayal of James H's duration of dry time to be the equivalent of his degree of accuracy and breadth of knowledge.
rate. This is supposedly in contrast to a 50% (they used to claim 75% or 90%) "success rate" that AA allegedly enjoyed in the 1940s and 50s.
Their absurd assertion is unquestioningly being cited on web sites, in literature, in academic papers and TV as established fact when it is pure fiction.
the
1940s and 50s is derived solely through selective semantic citation (which is deficient in context) and is not statistically demonstrated. There may have been some place at some time with that kind of success, but to use it to paint a broad-brush overall projection of AA is ridiculous.
is no viable and verifiable body of records or statistics maintained that would provide any type of reliable basis for stating any type of overall AA "success rate." The same holds true today in terms of asserting the erroneous 5% "success rate." The folks that make these
kinds of fatuous claims are driven by an agenda, not facts. All too often, those making the claims do so as a disingenuous null hypothesis that that someone else must disprove rather than them substantiating their claims with factual evidence. As a solution to their manufactured doom and gloom scenario, B2B advocates the rather unremarkable hypothesis that Step choreography is the determining factor in successful recovery. This is based on James H's expert insight via the following gem of wisdom and experience on B2B's web site:
"original" program that allowed him to successfully "fly the plane." They were:
(1) the verbal Fourth Step (Moral Inventory), (2) the expanded Ninth Step that included forgiveness as well as restitution, and (3) the written Eleventh Step (Prayer and Meditation). He supplied Wally with a four-page pamphlet, written in 1938 by a person who had attended Oxford Group meetings with Dr. Bob Smith. This pamphlet, titled "How to Listen to God," provided clear, concise directions on how to conduct two-way prayer."
written one. They later embellished this profound thesis with suggesting the use of a particular "assets and liabilities list" together with sponsor participation. This, along with a choreography change to take the "forgiveness" the Big Book suggest doing in the 4th
Step and migrate it to the 9th Step (without passing GO or collecting $200), and then squeeze in a little "quiet time" in the 11th Step and, voila, your "success rates" soar from 5% to a 10-fold exponential increase to %50% or higher.
built on meager threads is it putting it mildly. Even more meager are any solid demonstration of facts. The notions are based on anecdotal hearsay or the tortuous twisting of semantic nuance. To give credence to this theater of the absurd, B2B has elevated and shamelessly promoted James H to demigod status in terms of his presumed qualifications to offer expert commentary on how AA and the Oxford Group functioned 70 years ago. The sad fact is that quite a number of AA members, who have no way of knowing any better, have been swallowing it hook, line and sinker. Over the years, the B2B web site has asserted some rather creatively evolving "connections" that were supposed to have existed between James H and Bill W (even a mention of Dr Bob).
Wilson in Frederick, MD from 1935-1937." James H lived in Maryland, Bill W lived in NY (a mere 244 miles distant one-way today via interstate highways). During the great economic depression (which accounts for the latter half of the 1930s) and during World War II (which accounts for the beginning half of the 1940s) travel in the US was no simple matter, even from Maryland to NY. I'm not sure whether B2B's use of the word "together" is supposed to be interpreted to mean "at the same place,"
"at the same time" or both. In any event, it gives the impression that
James H and Bill W were frequently in contact with one another when I don't believe any such thing actually occurred. The next is a claim on B2B's web site that "Although James stayed in the Oxford Group, he did have contact with the early A.A. fellowship through Sam Shoemaker, a mutual friend of his and Bill Wilson's. Sam Shoemaker was the rector of the Calvary Church in New York City, which was the United States headquarters of the Oxford Group."
Shoemaker left the Oxford Group in 1941 and evicted the Oxford Group from Calvary Hall in NYC. So it would be interesting to find out just how James H worked through Sam Shoemaker. In response to a question of whether James H was a member of AA, the answer was "Yes, he is as much a member of A.A. as anyone else who has a desire to stop drinking. However, for James the compulsion to drink was successfully removed on December 12, 1934. He has not had a drink of alcohol or taken a mood altering substance (including nicotine) since that day. ... James has an A.A. home group. It meets on Thursday nights at the Towson, MD Methodist church."
the Oxford Group in the 1930's and is a member of Moral Re-Armament today."
sober
member and he's a member of Moral Rearmament, which today is called "Initiatives of Change" (perhaps James hadn't noticed). so it's anything but clear how James H actually fits into the total picture.
Jr. The title of the book was "The Great Imposter." I can't help but get the same sense that a similar book could be written about B2B and James H. Cheers Arthur
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob White Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:07 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] James Houck and AA in Towson
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