Part IV
BUT IF OUR CONCEPT of God is on the
nebulous side, we are offered more concrete
guidance on the subject of religion and spirituality.
It is not awesome, abstract and complex, even
though it seems so at first.
Let's examine what some of the fine minds of
history -- philosophers, psychologists, educators --
have to say about religion. Note that none of them,
with the exception of St. James, is a professional
religionist.
"Religion is the worship of higher powers from a
sense of need." --Allan Menzies.
"Religion shall mean for us the feelings, acts and
experiences of individual men in their solitude, so
far as they apprehend themselves to stand in
relation to whatever they may consider the divine."
-- William James.
"Religion is the recognition of all our duties as
divine commands."--Immanual Kant.
"Religion is that part of human experience in
which man feels himself in relation with powers
of psychic nature, usually personal powers, and
makes use of them."--James Henry Leuba.
"Pure religion and undefiled before our God and
Father is this, to visit the fatherless and windows
in their affliction and to keep oneself unspotted
from the world."--The General Epistle of James,
1:27.
One cannot but be impressed with the similarity
of these definitions to our own Twelve Steps.
The Menzies definition is nothing more than a
condensed version of the first three steps wherein
we admit we are beaten, come to believe a Power
greater than ourselves can restore us, and turn our
wills and lives over to that Power.
William James, stripped of verbiage, says that we
should believe in God AS WE UNDERSTAND HIM.
Immanuel Kant also tells us to turn our wills and lives
over to God, and then hints at Steps Five to Eleven,
wherein we are admonished to give our lives a
thorough housecleaning. For such confessions and
restitutions are without question divine commands.
James Henry Leuba hints at the Twelfth Step,
where we make use of our newly found powers.
And all we need to do in the St. James passage is
to substitute the word "Alcoholic" for "Father less
and Widows" and we have Step Twelve. As a
matter of fact, before we gave up alcohol we
were very definitely fatherless and widows.
The spiritual life is by no means a Christian monopoly.
There is not an ethical religion in the world today
that does not teach to a great extent the principles
of Love, Charity and Good Will.
The Jehovah of the Hebrews is a stern God who
will have vengeance if his laws are broken, yet the
great Hebrew prophets taught a message of social
justice. Incidentally, the modern Jewish family is one
of our finest examples of helping one another. When
a member of the family gets into trouble of any
kind, the relatives, from parents to cousins, rally
around with advice, admonition, and even financial
assistance. This, incidentally, may be one reason
there are not more Jewish members of AA. The
family, in many cases, can handle the alcoholic
problem.
Followers of Mohammed are taught to help the
poor, give shelter to the homeless and the traveler,
and conduct themselves with personal dignity.
Consider the eight-part program laid down in
Buddhism: Right view, right aim, right speech, right
action, right living, right effort, right mind- edness
and right contemplation. The Buddhist philosophy,
as exemplified by these eight points, could be
literally adopted by AA as a substitute for or
addition to the Twelve Steps. Generosity, universal
love and welfare of others rather than
considerations of self are basic to Buddhism.
The ultimate aim of all men is peace of spirit.
Without a spiritual life there can be no tranquility
and serenity.
St. Augustine says, "Peace is the tranquility of order."
We will find peace when our lives are rightly ordered.
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++++Message 3168. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Experience, strength, and hope
From: RDUBYA . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/13/2006 8:06:00 PM
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Penny,
Pleae look at the last line of the Forward to the third edition of
Alcoholics
Anonymous.
Roger W.
Penny wrote:
Where did the phrase share our experience, strength
and hope come from?
In love and sobriety
Penny Morrison DOS 8-18-00
Roanoke Virginia
Change only happens when the pain of hanging on is
greater than the fear of letting go!
Never assume some one knows you love them,
take the time to tell them.
SPONSORED LINKS
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recovery center Christian addiction recovery Alcoholics anonymous
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Love and Service
Roger M Weed
"be strong in the Lord, and in the Power of His might". Eph 6:10
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++++Message 3169. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: First woman was Jane S., not
Florence
From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/13/2006 7:55:00 PM
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It appears that someone has no idea what the book I
wrote was based upon or the fact that it wasn't just
Clarence's bio but an historical account of early
Cleveland AA.
Only a small part of the book was based upon
interviews with Clarence. Dozens of oral histories of
early AA members in AA archival repositories -
including AAGSO - were used. Several thousands of
pages of original documents from Cleveland and other
archival repositories including AAGSO, Stepping Stones
etc were used. A couple hundred hours of live,
in-person and phone interviews of long-term members
and friends of AA were used. Over 11 years of
extensive research, writing and review went into the
book.
Your constant efforts to malign and discredit the book
continues to illuminate your own agenda here. The
name, Jane S. does not appear in any of the early
Cleveland archival materials or dozens of meeting
rosters or histories of all the original groups
compiled by Norm E., the recording statistician from
the Cleveland Central Committee in the early 1940's.
Cheers
> I agree that a reasonable period of dry time should
> be a factor as
> opposed to just when someone might have first showed
> up. Bill and Bob
> had two unsuccessful Akron, OH prospects (Dr McK and
> Eddie R) prior to
> Bill D being dubbed "AA #3." Plus there was the
> legendary "Lil."
>
> Using the 1-year criterion would favor Florence R
> for primacy and my
> vote goes to Florence.
>
> Jane S (presumed to be from Cleveland) predated
> Clarence S (the
> acknowledged Cleveland pioneer) by a year yet she is
> not recalled in
> Mitchell K's biography of Clarence S (based on
> interviews with
> Clarence). So I just don't know where Jane S fits
> other than being
> mentioned in "Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimers" along
> with "Lil."
>
> Cheers
> Arthur
>
> __________________________________
>
> Message 3142 from:
> Tom Hickcox
> (cometkazie1 at cox.net)
> Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers]
> First woman was Jane S., not Florence
>
> Perhaps if we could agree on a question first, then
>
> it could be addressed. The question could be, "Who
> was the first woman working the program of what
> became Alcoholics Anonymous to attain a year's
> sobriety?"
>
>
>
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++++Message 3170. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Young People''s Group- 4021
Clubhouse Phila, Pa.Celebrates 60 years
From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/14/2006 12:22:00 AM
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The October 1944 issue of the Cleveland (Ohio) Central
Bulletin announced the first Young People's meeting:
"Age is no barrier if you wish to participate in the
meeting of one of the newest groups, organized in
October. The group calls itself the Young People's
Group and it was formed by several of the younger
A.A.'s...20's - 30's. But they stress the fact that
they do not exclude 'oldsters' from their meetings."
The group met on Wednesdays at 8:30 PM in the West
Side Evangelical Hall on West 38th Street and Bridge.
--- Shakey1aa@aol.com wrote:
> The 35 and Younger Group(Young Peoples Group) was
> started February 1946 by
> Art L, and Bates Mc L. in Philadelphia, Pa. Being
> under 30 years of age they
> thought that AA wasn't doing such a good job with
> the younger alcoholic. They
> started a weekly monday meeting for members of AA
> under 35 years of age. The
> group had several female members. They felt they
> could deal with members who
> were younger and had not yet hit as low a bottom as
> older members. They had
> parties, picnic's and other social events as well
> as the AA meetings.
> Several years ago,at a workshop that had several
> original group members,
> I remember Pat C saying that she and several
> other members of the group
> got in a car and went to Niagra Falls for the 1st
> Young Peoples convention.Most
> of those that attended the workshop had a love of
> life and of each other and
> were all over 50 years of continuous sobriety.
> The group will celebrate 60 years on Tuesday,
> February 14th at 7 P.M. at
> 4021 Walnut St. Philadelphia,Pennsylvania.
> Does anyone know of any Young People's Groups
> before that date. I think
> there may have been another group in the Los Angeles
> area.
> Yours in Service,
> Shakey Mike G.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
>
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++++Message 3171. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "burning desire"
From: Veda . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/13/2006 9:16:00 PM
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I don't know about the "burning desire" but "do the next
right thing" comes
from the story of Dr. Paul "Doctor Alcoholic, Addict" which is now
named
Acceptance Is The Answer". And the saying "It works if you work
it" comes
from the chapter "Into Action". Where it says "It works it
really does".
-------Original Message-------
From: hesofine2day
Date: 02/13/06 00:11:05
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "burning desire"
I have an idea that many of the expressions and
conventions in AA these days have seeped in from
NA and/or treatment centers.
Does anyone know the origin of "Does anyone have
a burning desire?" at the end of a meeting?
Also where did the expression "do the next right
thing" come from?
And finally saying "It works if you work it" after
the Lord's prayer.
________________________________
From the moderator:
Raymond I., who shows up in my book about
old time AA in northern Indiana
(see http://hindsfoot.org/kfoc1.html)
frequently tells newcomers "you must want it with
a burning desire." He says he didn't make up
this phrase, but that it was something that other
people also said back in the old days.
"Old time" is relative.
Raymond came into the program in 1974, but was
trained by the old-time black AA members who came
into South Bend AA in the 1940's. He doesn't talk
treatment jargon or use the jazzy NA phrases that
everybody chants at the end of their meetings.
So I think that in the form "you must want it with
a burning desire," the words go back to a period
before all the psychobabble and high school
cheerleading type stuff.
The great heyday of the treatment centers funded
by insurance money ran from the mid 1980's to
the mid 1990's approximately, so anything prior
to the mid 1980's is probably not coming from
that source.
But can anybody trace "you must want it with a
burning desire" back before the 1970's?
"Modern AA" and "old time AA" are both relative
terms, and in the earliest years, 1936 is very
different from 1938, 1939 is very different from
1941, and 1946 is very different from 1948 or
1949. The 1960's were very different from the
1950's. AA was going through continuous change
and development during that whole period. But
it was working effectively and continuing to
grow and expand at an enormous rate.
Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)
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++++Message 3172. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "burning desire"
From: j_oys5672 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/14/2006 8:01:00 AM
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Frank M. from Illinois early on in his story makes the statement "It
works if you work
it and it dont't if you don't. I do not know if he is the originator of this
statement. As i
have been told many times nothing in Alcoholics Anonymous is Original !
Jerry O.
Southern MN. Area 36 Archivist
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++++Message 3173. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Women in AA: "Gertrude" and Rev.
Shoemaker
From: j_oys5672 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/14/2006 8:12:00 AM
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--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, sbanker914@
... wrote:
Many years ago -- maybe 16 or so -- an audio
tape was slipped into a purchase of books I
had made in a spiritual bookshop in NYC (long
gone). It turned out to be a wonderful talk
by a woman named "Gertrude" to a group of
Episcopal church women, in Chicago, I think.
I don't remember specifics of the tape very
well, but I'll never forget Gertrude ....
I wonder if anyone else ever heard that
tape or remembers Gertrude.
Susan Banker
NYC
____________________________________________
It may just possibly be Gert B. If my memory
serves me right I believe she was living in
Iowa a number of years ago and I don't know
if she is still living. I have three tapes
by Gert B.
Jerry
Southern MN. Area 35 Archivist
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++++Message 3174. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W''s writings on Vitamin B
From: Russ Hillard . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/14/2006 12:01:00 PM
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Well, that didn't take long....
See http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html - to pique your
interest
here is an excerpt:
"The term vitamin B-3 was reintroduced by my friend Bill W., co-founder
of
Alcoholics Anonymous, (Bill Wilson). We met in New York in 1960. Humphry
Osmond
and I introduced him to the concept of mega vitamin therapy. We described
the
results we had seen with our schizophrenic patients, some of whom were also
alcoholic. We also told him about its many other properties. It was
therapeutic
for arthritis, for some cases of senility and it lowered cholesterol levels.
Bill was very curious about it and began to take niacin, 3 g daily. Within a
few weeks fatigue and depression which had plagued him for years were gone.
He
gave it to 30 of his close friends in AA and persuaded them to try it.
Within 6
months he was convinced that it would be very helpful to alcoholics. Of the
thirty, 10 were free of anxiety, tension and depression in one month.
Another 10
were well in two months. He decided that the chemical or medical terms for
this
vitamin were not appropriate. He wanted to persuade members of AA,
especially
the doctors in AA, that this would be a useful addition to treatment and he
needed a term that could be more readily popularized. He asked me the names
that
had been used. I told him it was originally known as vitamin B-3. This was
the
term Bill wanted. In his first report to physicians in AA he called it
"The
Vitamin B-3 Therapy." Thousands of copies of this extraordinary
pamphlet were
distributed. Eventually the name came back and today
even the most conservative medical journals are using the term vitamin B-3.
Bill became unpopular with the members of the board of AA International. The
medical members who had been appointed by Bill, felt that he had no business
messing about with treatment using vitamins. They also "knew"
vitamin B-3 could
not be therapeutic as Bill had found it to be. For this reason Bill provided
information to the medical members of AA outside of the National Board,
distributing three of his amazing pamphlets. They are now not readily
available."
Regards,
Russ HIllard
JOHN e REID wrote:
I have, somewhere, a hard copy of Bill W's writings to the Medical
Profession
on Vitamin B and its benefits to alcoholics. However, I am not sure as to
where
this had copy is. However, I am sure that by now, these very informative and
interesting studies would be stored, electronically.Could someone please
provide
me with an electronic copy.
Having "found" my first Sponsor (Broken Hill Jack who I knew all
my life and
walked with me for 29 years until he died July 1, 2001) virtually day dot,
having "done" my first 4 and 5th Step (from the Big Book) when I
was less than 3
months sober, having been involved in the 3rd Steps Meeting in Australia,
the
1st Big Book Study Groups (under direct and personal guidance from Wesley
Parrish), the first Beginners Group, 1st Sponsorship Workshop, 1 st
Traditions
Workshops, 1 st Workshops on the Four Absolutes, etc., I am not suggesting
against anything to do with "structured Recovery process" (not
necessarily AA
jargon). However, I came into AA before "Living Sober" was put
out.
Based on my own practical experience, of getting well physically from a
shivering, shaking mess, sufficiently enough to have the bodily capacity and
mental willingness to develop spiritually, I believe every newie would
benefit
from being issued with a copy of "Living Sober" along with their
local Meetings
list plus Members phone number, as their first hard copy collection of AA
material. I have been taking B vitamins for over 33 years, as was suggested
to
me and as was the case for many many Oldtimers who showed me the
"way" which
included the physical and mental as well as the spiritual. While Broken Hill
Jack "took me" straight to the Serenity Prayer, at our first
outing, he also
suggested that I put the Vitamin B next to the salt and pepper shaker, so
as I
would not forget to take it every morning. Broken Hill Jack also explained
(I
will not go into his explanations now) why alcoholics like him and I need
Vitamin B. In fact when Bill was told to stop shouting from "spiritual
hilltops", it was suggested that he stress the (physically and perhaps
mental)
hopelessness of the disease.
Pray God, as I "get well????", help me not to forget that it is a
Three Fold
Disease!!!!
Kind Regards, John R
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3175. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W''s writings on Vitamin B
From: Russ Hillard . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/14/2006 11:54:00 AM
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Hi All -
John's inquiry below has prompted me to look around a bit. The search has
just started, but I have found that Dr Abram Hoffer knew Bill W and he is
apparently the original source of Bill's interest in niacin (one of the
B-complex vitamins) for the treatment of alcoholism.
Dr Andrew Saul has written extensively on the importance of nutritional
factors (including, but not limited to, B-complex vitamins) in the treatment
of
alcoholism. For a quick introduction you might look at
http://www.doctoryourself.com/alcoholism.html
If I turn up anything really historical I'll let you know.
Best regards,
Russ Hillard
JOHN e REID wrote:
I have, somewhere, a hard copy of Bill W's writings to the Medical
Profession
on Vitamin B and its benefits to alcoholics. However, I am not sure as to
where
this had copy is. However, I am sure that by now, these very informative and
interesting studies would be stored, electronically.Could someone please
provide
me with an electronic copy.
Having "found" my first Sponsor (Broken Hill Jack who I knew all
my life and
walked with me for 29 years until he died July 1, 2001) virtually day dot,
having "done" my first 4 and 5th Step (from the Big Book) when I
was less than 3
months sober, having been involved in the 3rd Steps Meeting in Australia,
the
1st Big Book Study Groups (under direct and personal guidance from Wesley
Parrish), the first Beginners Group, 1st Sponsorship Workshop, 1 st
Traditions
Workshops, 1 st Workshops on the Four Absolutes, etc., I am not suggesting
against anything to do with "structured Recovery process" (not
necessarily AA
jargon). However, I came into AA before "Living Sober" was put
out.
Based on my own practical experience, of getting well physically from a
shivering, shaking mess, sufficiently enough to have the bodily capacity and
mental willingness to develop spiritually, I believe every newie would
benefit
from being issued with a copy of "Living Sober" along with their
local Meetings
list plus Members phone number, as their first hard copy collection of AA
material. I have been taking B vitamins for over 33 years, as was suggested
to
me and as was the case for many many Oldtimers who showed me the
"way" which
included the physical and mental as well as the spiritual. While Broken Hill
Jack "took me" straight to the Serenity Prayer, at our first
outing, he also
suggested that I put the Vitamin B next to the salt and pepper shaker, so
as I
would not forget to take it every morning. Broken Hill Jack also explained
(I
will not go into his explanations now) why alcoholics like him and I need
Vitamin B. In fact when Bill was told to stop shouting from "spiritual
hilltops", it was suggested that he stress the (physically and perhaps
mental)
hopelessness of the disease.
Pray God, as I "get well????", help me not to forget that it is a
Three Fold
Disease!!!!
Kind Regards, John R
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SPONSORED LINKS
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recovery center Christian addiction recovery Alcoholics anonymous
---------------------------------
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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---------------------------------
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new and
used cars.
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++++Message 3176. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Experience, strength, and hope
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/14/2006 5:52:00 PM
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Hi Penny
"Experience, strength and hope" first appeared in the June 1947
Grapevine. That issue carried the introduction of what we today call
the "AA Preamble." It was written by Tom Y, Grapevine's first
editor
and was based on the foreword to the 1st edition Big Book.
The full text of the preamble and after-notes, as it read then in the
June 1947 Grapevine was:
Alcoholics Anonymous
Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share, their
experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve
their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.
The only requirement for membership is an honest desire to stop
drinking. A.A. has no dues or fees. It is not allied with any sect,
denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to
engage in any controversy, and neither endorses nor opposes any
causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and to help other
alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
The A.A. Program of Recovery is incorporated in The 12 Steps. The A.A.
book of experience, Alcoholics Anonymous, and other literature,
including The 12 Points of Tradition, are available through any group
or the Central Office, P.O. Box 459, Grand Central Annex, New York 17,
N. Y.
The term "experience, strength and hope" was also incorporated
into
the Foreword to the 3rd edition Big Book. Not that long ago it became
the title for the anthology containing the personal stories deleted
from prior editions of the Big Book.
Cheers
Arthur
-----Original Message-----
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Penny
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:15 AM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Experience, strength, and hope
Where did the phrase share our experience, strength
and hope come from?
In love and sobriety
Penny Morrison DOS 8-18-00
Roanoke Virginia
Change only happens when the pain of hanging on is
greater than the fear of letting go!
Never assume some one knows you love them,
take the time to tell them.
Yahoo! Groups Links
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++++Message 3177. . . . . . . . . . . . Self-Support
From: sunnykhill12 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/14/2006 2:54:00 PM
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Was there an article in the Grapevine or in some other publication
that suggested a $1 per meeting donation in the meeting basket? If
so, what year was it published. I am seeing my Area and District
struggle financially because groups only have enough money to cover
their own expenses with the $1 mentality.
Any information would help - I have been asked to do a self-support
workshop.
Thanks,
Sunny H.
Little Rock, AR
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++++Message 3178. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Women in AA: "Gertrude" and Rev.
Shoemaker
From: David G. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/15/2006 5:35:00 PM
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Dear Ms. Baker,
Check out the link below to the biography of Gertrude Behanna.
Text and Real Audio tapes are available.
http://www.aabibliography.com/gertbehanna.htm#biog
Dave
Illinois
USA
Reply-To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Women in AA: "Gertrude" and Rev.
Shoemaker
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 12:16:44 EST
Dear Art,
I've been a member of AAHistoryLovers for a long time and enjoy the list
very much.
Many years ago -- maybe 16 or so -- an audio tape was slipped into a
purchase of books I had made in a spiritual bookshop in NYC (long gone).
It turned
out to be a wonderful talk by a woman named "Gertrude" to a group
of
Episcopal church women, in Chicago, I think. I don't remember specifics of
the tape
very well, but I'll never forget Gertrude. She was more than middle aged
when she made the tape and she had been sober a long time. She knew Dr.
Shoemaker and I think was a member of his congregation. Most vividly I
remember her
telling of the years she had lived in a house in Santa Fe which she had
filled up with needy women in early recovery.
I wish I had copied the tape, but I didn't. I passed it along to another
recovering woman.
I wonder if anyone else ever heard that tape or remembers Gertrude.
Susan B.
NYC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3179. . . . . . . . . . . . AA Vacation Facility, Retirement
Community Living
From: greatcir@comcast.net> . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/15/2006 12:51:00 AM
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In the Brown University archives there is a post card from a Camp Ouendake
on Beausoleil Island in Gerorian Bay National Park that said it was for
alcoholics and their families. It also said "no rowdysim, alcoholic
beverages, dogs or firearms." No date on the card as I recall.
My questions are: Were there other AA family vacation or living facilities?
Have there been any AA flavored (or AA and Al-Anon) communitites (or small
developments) established over the years?
I ask because a few of we retired AA seniors have begun researching the
possibiity of such a small retirement housing development for our families
and we could certainly benefit from the lessons of others. So far, we have
not found an AA related communtiy (or 12th step community) projects and we
are looking at only http://www.cohousing.org/overview.aspx as a beginning
guidline for discussion among outselves with a focus on sober retirement
living.
Pete Kopcsak
Nashville, TN
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++++Message 3180. . . . . . . . . . . . "More will be revealed"
From: Cheryl F . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/16/2006 12:51:00 PM
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Does anyone know where the phrase "More will be revealed" came
from? Someone
asked me the other day and I can't find it in the literature. Of course that
might mean I haven't read something I need to have read anyway yet.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3181. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Bob`s Nightmare
From: Fred . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/16/2006 10:38:00 AM
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Attending an archives workshop we came across an interesting question,
on page 175 there is mention of Dr. Bob`s father sending a doctor from
their hometown to bring him back there. Which consequently kept Dr.
Bob in bed for the NEXT 2 months before he could eventually venture
out of the house.Suffering from the effects of his alcoholoic behavior
certainly required some medical attention during this convelescence.We
could not determine the DOCTORS name who brought Dr. Bob back to St.
Johnsbury for this rehabilation attempt.Does anyone know of the NAME
of this DOCTOR from St. Johnsbury,Vt.
Inquisitively Grateful,
Fred
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++++Message 3182. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Re: Women in AA: "Gertrude" and
Rev. Shoemaker
From: Bruce A. Johanson . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/17/2006 1:36:00 AM
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Or it could be this Gertrude?
http://www.aabibliography.com/gertbehanna.htm
Great story of her!
Bruce A. Johanson
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++++Message 3183. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: AA Vacation Facility, Retirement
Community Living
From: Joe Nugent . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/17/2006 2:04:00 AM
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Hi Pete,
there is no longer a camp Ouendake on Beausoleil Island which is located in
Georgian Bay, Ontario, This is a web site that can give you some information
re. this Island http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/on/georg/natcul/natcul3_e.asp
enjoy
Joe N.
_____
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greatcir@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:51 AM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] AA Vacation Facility, Retirement Community Living
In the Brown University archives there is a post card from a Camp Ouendake
on Beausoleil Island in Gerorian Bay National Park that said it was for
alcoholics and their families. It also said "no rowdysim, alcoholic
beverages, dogs or firearms." No date on the card as I recall.
My questions are: Were there other AA family vacation or living facilities?
Have there been any AA flavored (or AA and Al-Anon) communitites (or small
developments) established over the years?
I ask because a few of we retired AA seniors have begun researching the
possibiity of such a small retirement housing development for our families
and we could certainly benefit from the lessons of others. So far, we have
not found an AA related communtiy (or 12th step community) projects and we
are looking at only http://www.cohousing.org/overview.aspx as a beginning
guidline for discussion among outselves with a focus on sober retirement
living.
Pete Kopcsak
Nashville, TN
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++++Message 3184. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "burning desire"
From: Chuck Parkhurst . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/17/2006 4:13:00 AM
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Is this just opinion?
I have read Dr Paul's story again just now and see
nothing in there that I feel resembles that quote
and "It works it really does," seems a far cry from
the mindless chant heard at a lot of meetings.
At some of my groups, after the end of the Lord's
prayer, we say......STAY.
Chuck Parkhurst
______________________________
Responding to Message 3171 from "Veda"
(mcveda at yahoo.com)
I don't know about the "burning desire" but "do
the next right thing" comes from the story of Dr.
Paul "Doctor Alcoholic, Addict" which is now
named "Acceptance Is The Answer".
And the saying "It works if you work it" comes
from the chapter "Into Action". Where it says
"It works it really does."
______________________________
Which was a response to Message 3158 from
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