Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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> > hi history lovers, > > > > Page 140 of To Employers says: "Can it be > appreciated that he has > > been
> > a victim of crooked thinking, directly caused by > the action of > alcohol > >
> > on his brain?" > >
> > One of our members asked why would Bill put such > an important piece > of > >
> > information in the chapter to employers,instead of > perhaps one of > the > > chapters at the beginning of the book. > > > > Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks from Tracy > > The Barking Big Book Study Group > > England > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > SPONSORED LINKS > > Addiction recovery program Recovery from > addiction > > Addiction recovery center Christian addiction > recovery > > Alcoholics anonymous > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >
> > > > Visit your group "AAHistoryLovers" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > AAHistoryLovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > >
> > --------------------------------- > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Mail > > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying > attachments. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
> > > > > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3281. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: "Stump the Archivist" From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/20/2006 6:56:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII To my knowledge and from the sources (other than Orange papers which got the info from aamo) I do believe these documents to be copies of the originals which are a matter of public record. --- David Johnson > As Alcoholics Anonymous is "a fellowship of men and > women who share > their experience, strength and hope," I'd have to > say Bill W.'s life, > the good, the bad and the ugly, is ALL a part of > A.A. history, > especially where it affected AAWS and it's legal > agreements with him. > > Which is where Bill's mistress comes in. The > "search" function for > this group is quite good and uncovered the > following: > > This is from Message # 2519 and part of a larger > post on royalty > information re: The Big Book. The author: Art > Sheehan > 1963 - Bill modified his royalty agreement with AAWS > so that 10% of > his royalties went to his mistress, Grapevine > Editor, Helen W. > > Of course, we have Art Sheehan's most recent post as > well. > > These are purported copies of the actual will of > Bill Wilson and > mention : > http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-BillWill.html > and
> http://gsowatch.aamo.info/aaws/heirs.htm. The > relevant quote: "A. I > give and bequeath to HELEN WYNN [Bill changed his > Will to take 10% > royalties from his wife Lois and give those 10% to > his mistress > Helen], of Pleasantville, New York, if she survives > me, a life > interest in ten percent (10%) of such royalties. If > the said HELEN > WYNN does not survive me, I direct that the said ten > percent (10%) of > such royalties shall be disposed of in accordance > with the provisions > of Paragraphs B or C, as the case my be of this > Article FIRST." > > If anyone can corroborate the veracity of these > documents OR disprove > their veracity, I'd be most obliged. > > "We claim progress, not perfection." There is a > desire among some AA > history buffs to "sanitize" the progress and > development of AA. When > one begins to add up references to the "original > message" and claiming > only the first 164 pages (actually just the first > 163 as p. 164 > includes the line "We realize we only know but a > little ....")are the > "real" A.A., a trend towards fundamentalism and away > from plurality > can be seen. > > AA has helped me develop a personal relationship > with a God loving and > powerful enough to make use of even my defects of > character. To > acknowledge the humanness of AA's members, even it's > founders, is also > to come to appreciate the power of the principles of > the program. > > L'Chaim! > > > --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hickcox > > wrote:
> > > > At 19:01 3/16/2006 , James Blair wrote: > > > >
> > > > > JANUARY 2006 STUMP THE ARCHIVIST > > > > > > Did Bill Wilson have a mistress who lived in > Miami? > > >
> > >Who he bonked or didn't bonk has nothing to do > with AA history. > > > > > > When and where did the poker chip tradition > start for the groups? > > >
> > >Chips, Medallions and Birthdays > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >The traditions of chips, medallions and birthdays > vary in different > parts of > > >the country and I thought it would be interesting > to look up some > of the
> > >history on them. > > >
> > > > Neither do the traditions of chips, medallions, > and > > birthdays/anniversaries. They are local > traditions and not part of A.A. > >
> > Tommy in Baton Rouge > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >
> > > > > > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3282. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: authorship of Chapter 10 From: johnlawlee . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/21/2006 6:40:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Mitchell K." > Mitchell: I stand by my earlier posting. The person who wrote "The Unbeliever" is not the person who wrote "To Employers". There is absolutely no overlap between the two, although they were both written in 1938 or early 1939. I don't believe you can point to a single phrase in "The Unbeliever" which supplies language/terms/style similar to that found in "To Employers"; for that matter, there is no language or phrasing in "The Unbeliever" which is similar to language or phrasing in any part of the Big Book. "The Unbeliever" is a farrago, a confused mess...staccato, almost hallucinatory style. "The Unbeliever" was not written by the person
who wrote Chapter 10. On the other hand, every paragraph of Chapter 10 contains phrases found in other chapters of the basic text. As just one example, out of dozens I could give, pages 143-44 of Chapter 10 talk about the "subject matter" of this book. "It contains full suggestions by which the employee may solve his problem." Compare 143- 44 with the similar language found on page 45 of the earlier Chapter 4, about the "main object" of the book ["to find a Power...which will solve your problem"]. I'd be happy to go over Chapter 10 with you, line by line, and point out where phrases from Chapter 10 are used identically, elsewhere in the Big Book. The person who wrote Chapter 10 borrowed heavily from the other ten chapters of the Big Book. It defies belief that Hank wrote Chapter 10 in isolation. If Hank did in fact compose Chapter 10, he was a liberal plagiarist who copied Bill Wilson's exact language and writing style. Hank would have also completely changed his writing style and language in a six month period,and discarded all his ideas from his own story. The better view is that all eleven chapters of the Big Book were drafted by the same person. They were not written at all by the person who authored "The Unbeliever". I have no doubt that Hank claimed in Hank's correspondence that Hank authored Chapter 10. In a similar vein, Ebby Thatcher loved to refer to himself as a "founder" of AA. I have no doubt that Hank's one- time brother-in law, Clarence S., gave Hank credit for Chapter 10. I have no doubt that Hank's ideas made their way into Chapter 10. Hank was a former Standard Oil executive, who shared a small office in Newark with Bill Wilson and Ruth Hock. Bill Wilson composed Chapters 1 through 11, no doubt running ideas past Hank in their office every day. Bill Wilson gave Hank credit for Chapter 10, even though Bill had done the writing. In summary, it should be undisputed that Bill Wilson was the author [the "principal" author, if you prefer] of Chapters 1 through 11. There is nothing in Hank's first edition story to suggest that Hank composed Chapter 10. Although Bill had some character defects, hugging credit was not one of them. Bill publically praised William James, Sam Shoemaker and Ebby Thatcher as "founders" of AA. It should
not be surprising that Bill would be equally modest in allowing Hank to take credit for Chapter 10. love+service john lee
pittsburgh > If one just takes a written story published in the Big > Book as the only example of Hank's writing style it is > not doing diligent service to historical research. > There are several letters written by Hank and other > documents, including oral histories which give > authorship of that chapter (Employers) to Hank. I wish > I had a tape recorder at the time but Ruth told me > Hank was the author when I asked her at Stepping > Stones. Merton's research, my conversations with Ruth, > Clarence and others as well as my reading several > letters and other documents written by Hank lead me to > believe Hank was the author. > >
> --- johnlawlee > > > --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "ArtSheehan" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Bill didn't write the chapter "To Employers" (just > > the first > > > paragraph). Hank P wrote the chapter. > > > > > > I don't get a sense that the Big Book was written > > in the manner or > > > with the intent that is often presumed in > > analyzing it (perhaps > > > over-analyzing it might be a better way of putting > > it). > > >
> > > The member who asked the question is using a form > > of reasoning that > > > appears sincere, but flawed in its analytical > > gymnastics. It does > > > little more than open the door to what can be an > > endless amount of > > > speculation that serves more to distract rather > > than inform. > > > > > > Many Big Book chapters have a specific target > > audience (usually > > > denoted in the chapter titles). In this case it's > > employers. > > >
> > > The underlying assumption that the importance of a > > sentence is > > somehow > > > enhanced or diminished by its appearance in an > > early or later part > > of
> > > the book is a flawed assumption being treated as > > fact. > > > > > > The most popular, and perhaps important, portion > > of the Big Book, > > read
> > > at many meetings comes from its 5th chapter "How > > It Works." Trust > > me, > > > there is no need to move this chapter further > > toward the beginning > > of
> > > the book to emphasize its importance. It stands on > > its own content > > as > > > do all the other chapters. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Arthur > > >
> > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > Of Charlene C. > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:57 PM > > > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Crooked thinking > > >
> > > it would be my guess that employers are more > > inclined to think in > > > intellectual terms than medical or spiritual. > > especially in that > > > time, when alcoholism was considered more of a > > moral dilema than a > > > spiritual mallody or terminal illness. > > >
> > > just a thought. > > > C. Cook > > > > > > Hank Parkhurst is generally cited as the author of > > > > "To Employers" [Chapter 10 of Big Book]. I've always > > found that hard > > to believe, based on the contrast between the > > divergent styles of > > Chapter 10 and Hank's story in the First Edition. > > Hank's story, "The > > Unbeliever" is choppy, almost manic. It's filled > > with > > elipses,exclamations, etc. I've always suspected > > that Bill Wilson did > > the actual writing of Chapter 10, although Hank > > supplied many of the > > ideas for Chapter 10. Bill, Hank and Ruth Hock > > shared a small office > > in Newark when they put together the Big Book. I > > don't see any > > language in Hank's story which is similar to the > > content or style of > > Chapter 10. Bill was very generous in giving credit > > for the > > contributions of others; for instance, Bill referred > > to William James > > as a "founder" of AA, even though Professor James > > had been dead for > > decades when AA was founded. > > The authors of Chapter 10 are laying out a big order > > for employers. > > They're asking employers to read the Big Book and > > use it to "12 step" > > their employees. I don't see any information in > > Chapter 10 which is > > inconsistent with the first five chapters. The > > intended audience was > > different. It's not a different message. > > john lee > > member > > pittsburgh > > > trixiebellaa Yüklə 13,83 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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