(rstonebraker212 at insightbb.com) wrote:
Dr. Earl Marsh, in his Big Book story "Physician
Heal Thyself," mentions Emmet Fox's then, and
still, popular book "SERMON ON THE MOUNT."
See page 348 of the third edition of the Big Book.
Dear Bob,
Thanks for the tip! I FOUND IT!! My 3rd Edition
is the one I always bring to BB studies--some
of the pages are coming out, and it's all
highlighted up, but I love it just the same.
Also have a 4th Edition, hard cover, that,
admittedly, hasn't seen much (read:enough)
wear, yet.
Arthur and others,
Thanks so much for all the detail about Emmet
Fox and his writings and teachings. I've not
heard of the Green Book, but the others, I have.
I think I'm gonna look for the Little Red Book
and Emmet Fox's book, at my local used book
store, soon.
I used to read from the Upper Room. Think I
got it from my Dad, who was a Methodist.
I think it still exists today.
Happy sobriety,
Lynn from Sacramento, CA
______________________________
From the moderator:
"Twenty-Four Hours a Day" was written by AA member
Richmond Walker, who got sober in Boston in 1943,
and later moved to Daytona Beach, Florida. His
book was sponsored by the Daytona Beach AA group.
See http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla1.html and
http://hindsfoot.org/rwpix1.html. It and the Big
Book were the two most important books in early
AA for many years. It is still read from in numerous
AA meetings.
"The Little Red Book" and "Stools and Bottles"
(which had a green cover) were written by AA member
Ed Webster and sponsored by the Nicollet Group in
Minneapolis, Minnesota.
See http://hindsfoot.org/ed01.html and
http://hindsfoot.org/ed02.html.
When Ed Webster wrote "The Little Red Book," he
continually consulted with Dr. Bob, who put many
notes on the manuscript suggesting additions and
changes. This is our best guide as to the way
Dr. Bob understood the twelve steps. Dr. Bob sent
copies of this all over the world, from Canada to
Florida, and also made sure that the New York
AA office had copies available for sale until
the time he died in 1950.
The understood principle in early AA was that
any work which had been published under the
sponsorship of one AA group, could be read from
and sold to their members by any other AA group
which wished to do so, without need of any further
discussion.
Issues like this in AA have always been decided
by precedent (just as in English Common Law and
in modern American law) and not by a small group of
people deciding to pass a group of rules. So if
you look at AA in the 1930's, 40's, 50's, and
60's, and put together a list of books that were
read by AA groups, then on the grounds of precedent
alone, these books are can be read by modern AA
groups and sold by modern intergroups without
even any need of discussion. They are automatically
considered perfectly O.K.
The AA that saves us is the AA of the 1930's,
40's, 50's, and 60's, not some brainstorm on the
part of a small group of modern delegates who come
up with some theory and decide to pass rules. We
are saved by doing what the good old timers did,
not by following a set of mechanical and legalistic
rules.
We don't look at lists of rulings passed by
conferences and assemblies to find out what good
AA is, we read AA history to discover what really
good AA is.
"My story is my message" means that the story of
early AA is its crucial message, people in the early
days witnessing to what gave them sobriety and
real serenity of life. When we listen to them,
and try to do what they said they did (including
read the books which they said they read), we will
find that kind of sobriety and serenity ourselves.
Glenn C., South Bend, Indiana
glennccc@sbcglobal.net
(glennccc at sbcglobal.net)
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++++Message 3350. . . . . . . . . . . . 93% recovery rate in Cleveland
From: Bent Christensen . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 10:00:00 AM
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Hi there
Does anyone know which records Clarence is referring to when he make
the statement about the recovery rate in Dr. Bob and the Good
Oldtimers, at page 261?
Thanks
Bent
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++++Message 3351. . . . . . . . . . . . One-Day History ‘ Archives Gathering
June 24 2006 Lebanon PA
From: jlobdell54 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 2:41:00 PM
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The Gathering will be held at St Cecilia's Social Hall 750 State Drive
Lebanon PA registration at 8-9 am invited speakers oldtimers Clyde B
(6/20/1946) and Chet H (4/4/1949), possibly one or two others over 50
years, plus Glenn C (Moderator of AAHL and author of several books on
AA History), Mitch K (author of HOW IT WORKED and organizer of the
Clarence S Archive at Brown), with a panel on the GSO Proposed 1955-
2000 History, and a panel on Writing Local History: the Founders of AA
in Eastern PA. Exhibits from several archives. Those interested may
contactjaredlobdell@comcast.net for directions.
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++++Message 3352. . . . . . . . . . . . Non-Conference approved literature
From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/18/2006 8:42:00 PM
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Our Big Book Step Study Group in Richmond, IN, spends the first two Tuesdays
studying AA history - we show a short movie, "DAWN OF HOPE" and
sometimes A
HOUSE FULL OF MIRACLES" from Dr. Bob's Home. We make great effort to
make these 90 minute sessions interesting. I have learned lot's of
interesting little stories about Ebby Thacher, Rowland Hazard, Carl Jung,
Rev Shoemaker, Clarence Snyder and all the rest of those early historical
participants from non-conference approved materials. Here are listed a few
of our current book collection:
* EBBY, the man who sponsored Bill W., by Mel B.
* CHILDREN OF THE HEALER, by Bob Smith and Sue Windows
* DIARY OF TWO MOTORCYCLE HOBOS, by Lois Wilson, edited by Ellie Van V.
* GRATEFUL TO HAVE BEEN THERE, by Nell Wing
* HOW IT WORKED, the story of Clarence Snyder, By Mitchell K.
* SISTER IGNATIA, Angel of Alcoholics Anonymous, by Mary C. Darrah
* NOT GOD, a history of Alcoholics Anonymous, by Ernest Kurtz
* BILLW, by Robert Thomsen
Here are a few other non-AA history books we use for reference because they
were often read by early AA members:
* SERMON ON THE MOUNT, BY Emmet Fox
* AS A MAN THINKETH, by James Allen
* THE GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD, by Henry Drummond
But naturally our main source of historical information come from the
Conference approved books from GSO .
Bob S.
????????????????????????????
-----Original Message-----
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Lee Nickerson
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:28 AM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Emmet Fox
I surely agree. I was fortunate to be Maine's Archivist for eight
years and by what seemed necessity, I began to do the unthinkable -
read non-conference approved literature. It enhanced my sobriety and
allowed me to do my service job in a much more informative and
interesting way. I picked up the habit and have been at it ever
since. I just finished a book called Drinking: A Love Story by
Caroline Knapp - one of the best personal stories I have read in a
long time. As far as AA history goes; Not God, Sister Ignatia:The
Angel Of AA, Grateful to Have Been There and so many others have
made my journey much more enlightened and joyful. Many of the books
I have read were recommended by Frank M. the late alcoholic
archivist of GSO. He was a truly sweet gentleman and I miss him to
this day.
lee
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Mel Barger"
wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
> I asked Bill Wilson about Emmet Fox and he said
> they even attended his lectures in New York in the
> 1930s. He also said they read The Sermon on the
> Mount.
>
> I found my own copy of it in Pontiac, Michigan, in
> February, 1951, and have read it ever since.
>
> Mike E., the second member of AA in Detroit, even
> told of reading it while he was still getting well
> from his last drunk; he had to rest it on pillow
> to hold it steady!
>
> I regret that the unfortunate prejudice against
> literature that isn't conference-approved has
> eliminated this any several other good books from
> most meetings. I recommend it whenever I can and
> sometimes mention it in talks.
>
> Mel Barger
>
> ___________________________
>
> Note from the moderator:
>
> See Mel's little article on Emmet Fox at
> http://hindsfoot.org/Fox1.html
>
Yahoo! Groups Links
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++++Message 3353. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: quote from Bill re: the stories
From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/19/2006 7:53:00 AM
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On January 23, 1955 Bill wrote Clarence about the
stories being changed in the 2nd edition. Here are
some excerpts:
"Now, another matter. We are making a re-do of the
story section of the A.A. book. As you know, the old
stories were very low bottom. We then lacked the
experience we now have, and we lacked the great
variety of cases which A.A. today affords. So among
practically all consulted, it seems desirable to
broaden and deepen the story section of the book to
bring it in line with present-day membership and
experience. No change in the text, of course.
"The plan for the new story section runs like this:
instead of twenty-eight stories, there will be
thirty-seven. Headed by Doc Smith, they will be
divided into three groups of twelve stories each - the
pioneers, the high bottom and the low bottom.
"The larger part of the old stories will be dropped
from the book, in fact, all the New York ones."
(a couple of paragraphs down)
"Personally, I hated to take out so many of the old
stories. But my reasons were only sentimental, they
didn't make sense. The object of the story section is
to appeal to as many kinds of drunks as possible and
I'm sure that we shall now have a much bigger spread.
I hope and believe you will like the result when you
see it."
I think that might clear up why stories were dropped
and/or added. Another line I found interesting was:
"As you know, maybe one-half of today's incoming
membership is composed of milder potential
alcoholics..." Even in 1955 Bill recognized that many
wandering through the doors of AA weren't really
alcoholics YET. It is the same today and those who
come to explore or test the waters maybe shouldn't be
counted in all these skewed statistics. Too bad Bill
didn't address those few who did choose to resume
their drinking careers but I guess he felt that
Clarence already knew who they were.
--- ArtSheehan wrote:
> Ooops! I attached the wrong reply to Billy Bob's
> posting. Here's the
> correction. I exchanged the info below with Billy
> Bob in a separate
> email and would like to offer it for consideration:
>
> Hi Billy Bob
>
> I have Hartigan's book. The portion you emphasize
> illustrates the
> matter of context I tried to address. Hartigan
> actually supports the
> claim that 50% initially made it yet seems to try to
> portray a doom
> and gloom scenario for early 1939. Hartigan should
> also have cited
> Bill W's comments on the matter in 1955 in the 2nd
> edition Big Book.
>
> 29 stories were included in the 1st printing of the
> 1st edition Big
> Book. 22 of them were dropped in the 2nd edition.
> There is a myth in
> AA that the 22 stories were removed because the
> members had returned
> to drinking. It's not true. In the introduction to
> the personal
> stories in the 2nd edition Big Book Bill W wrote:
>
> "When first published in 1939, this book carried 29
> stories about
> alcoholics. To secure maximum identification with
> the greatest number
> of readers, the new 2nd Edition (1955) carries a
> considerably enlarged
> story section, as above described. Concerning the
> original 29 case
> histories, it is a deep satisfaction to record, as
> of 1955, that 22
> have apparently made full recovery from their
> alcoholism. Of these, 15
> have remained completely sober for an average of 17
> years each,
> according to our best knowledge and belief."
>
> In the introduction to the "Pioneers of AA Section"
> in the 2nd edition
> Bill W went on to write:
>
> "Dr Bob and the 12 men and women who here tell their
> stories were
> among the early members of AA's first groups. Though
> 3 have passed
> away of natural causes, all have maintained complete
> sobriety for
> periods ranging from 15 to 19 years as of this date
> 1955. Today,
> hundreds of additional AA members can be found who
> have had no relapse
> for at least 15 years. All of these then are the
> pioneers of AA. They
> bear witness that release from alcoholism can really
> be permanent."
>
> From the figures in Bill W's introduction,
> approximately 75% of the
> early members who had their stories in the 1st
> edition Big Book were
> sober as of AA's 20th anniversary (1955). Even if
> half didn't make it,
> as asserted by Hartigan, the percentage that did is
> still consistent
> with early claims of a 50% success rate.
>
> The 1st edition story authors is the only fully
> qualified population
> that demonstrates the claims that 50% made it and
> another 25% sobered
> up again after returning to drinking.
>
> Cheers
> Arthur
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of
> backtobasicsbillybob
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:51 PM
> To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] The Exact Quote from
> Francis Hartigan's
> Book In Regard To Early AA's Success
>
> "We have to wonder why both the Wilson's and the
> Smiths did not simply
>
> give up. Today the nations best treatment centers
> report success rates
>
> ranging from 25 percent to 50 percent. During Bill's
> stay in Akron, he
>
> and Bob calculated their success rate to be about 5
> percent, and among
>
> the few who seemed to catch on, not all of them were
> able to maintain
> consistent sobriety. The first edition of AA's Big
> Book, published in
> 1939, contains the personal recovery stories of many
> of AA's earliest
> members. Some years later, Bill made notations in
> the first copy of
> the book to come off the press, indicating which of
> the individuals
> portrayed therein had stayed sober. A good 50
> percent had not."
>
> Francis Hartigan, Bill W., Pages 91-92
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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++++Message 3354. . . . . . . . . . . . Books Early AA''s Read
From: rrecovery2002 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/18/2006 6:25:00 PM
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You all might be surprised how easy it is to borrow copies of the
Oxford Group books and other books early AAs read. My library
routinely interloans copies of all sorts of material for me---from
university libraries etc. Just ask your reference desk. Some libraries
may charge you the cost of postage.
Just on a lark one day, I asked if they could get me a copy of
V.C.Kitchen's I Was a Pagan and within a week I was reading a first
edition copy. Off the top of my head, I have read early editions of
Charles Clapp's books, Peabody's Common Sense of Drinking, Cecil Rose's
When a Man Listens and others
Bob
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++++Message 3355. . . . . . . . . . . . Conference approved literature...
From: Steve Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 12:47:00 PM
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Re: Conference approved literature...
Is there any reference within conference approved
literature or AA World Services literature about
the common group conscience guideline of restricting
literature in meetings to only "conference approved
literature"?
This request is of course to assist in settling
the often contentious question between newcomers
who have not previously come up against the issue
and the rest of us.
The reflections of this group will be appreciated.
Thanks
Steve M.
Central Oregon
______________________________
From the moderator (Glenn C., South Bend, Indiana)
CONFERENCE-APPROVED LITERATURE
A statement taken from service material released
by the GSO in New York. From 1951 on, the Trustees
Literature Committee, the Conference Literature
Committee, and the participants in the General
Service Conferences have overseen the content of
AA literature which was published by the AA
General Service Office.
Please note the second paragraph in this
statement: telling people that they CANNOT read
"non-conference-approved" literature violates
basic AA policies.
--------------------------------
"The term 'Conference-approved' describes written
or audiovisual material approved by the Conference
for publication by GSO. This process assures that
everything in such literature is in accord with AA
principles. Conference-approved material always deals
with the recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous
or with information about the AA Fellowship."
"The term has no relation to material not published
by GSO. It does not imply Conference disapproval
of other material about AA. A great deal of
literature helpful to alcoholics is published by
others, and AA does not try to tell any individual
member what he or she may or may not read."
"Conference approval assures us that a piece of
literature represents solid AA experience. Any
Conference-approved booklet or pamphlet goes
through a lengthy and painstaking process, during
which a variety of AAs from all over the United
States and Canada read and express opinions at
every stage of production."
--------------------------------
Source:
http://hindsfoot.org/archives.html
______________________________
On November 11, 1944, Bobby Burger, the secretary
at the Alcoholic Foundation in New York (what is
today called the General Service Office) wrote
a letter to Barry Collins, who had helped Ed
Webster in assembling and publishing the Little
Red Book:
--------------------------------
"Dear Barry,
. . . The Washington D.C. pamphlet [a.k.a.
the Detroit Pamphlet or Table Mate] and the new
Cleveland "Sponsorship" pamphlet and a host of