++++Message 3029. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Alcohol left in food after
cooking
From: Doug B. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/7/2006 2:28:00 AM
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I got this guide online:
http://www.betterendings.org/Recipes/cookal.htm
Cooking With Alcohol
When cooking with beer or alcohol, does all of the alcohol evaporate?
No. The following chart should be helpful.
PREPARATION METHOD / AlcoholRetained
No heat application, immediate consumption 100%
No heat application, overnight storage 70%
Alcohol ingredient added to boiling liquid, and removed from heat 85%
Flamed 75%
Baked, approximately 25 minutes, alcohol ingredient
on surface of mixture (not stirred in) 45%
Baked/simmered, alcohol ingredient stirred into mixture
15 minutes / 40%
30 minutes / 35%
1 hour / 25%
1.5 hours / 20%
2 hours / 10%
2.5 hours / 5%
source: Minnesota Nutrition Council Newsletter
What can I substitute if a recipe calls for beverages with alcohol?
The best, but not always the easiest solution, is to find another recipe
without alcohol that will fill the need. If the beer or wine is a major
ingredient in your recipe, or if a large quantity is called for, it
makes sense not to attempt a substitute. The results could be
unpleasant. In such a case, look for another recipe.
Often the alcohol required will be a small amount, such as a couple of
tablespoons, and in this case there are several substitutions:
In recipes having plenty of seasonings, plan water may be substituted.
Both the alcohol and a substitute may be omitted if the liquid isn't
needed for a gravy or sauce.
When cooking with fish, an equal amount of bottled or fresh clam or fish
stock may be substituted. Just remember, bottled clam juice and some
fish stocks are high in salt. Some people use white grape juice with
fish.
Other substitutes include chicken or beef broth
Juice such as lemon, lime, apple or cranberry are all possibilities.
Reprinted from Fall 99 Issue Byerly's Bag
Doug B.
JOHN e REID wrote:
> The Editorial Staff: The Grapevine, The Pathfinder, The Reviver, AA
> Around Australia, NZ Mainstay, Bristol Fashion.
>
> Some years ago the Grapevine published the results of a study on how
> much alcohol is retained in food after cooking. As Russ J who was
"AA
> Number 5" in Australia used the say, "the half truths in
AA".
>
> Recently I heard some fairly newly sober saying to a gathering of
> fairly new folk recently, "do not worry about how much alcohol is
in
> the food, it is ALL cooked out!!!!"
>
> For the benefit of us all, would you be so kind as to re-print the
> results of that previous study?
>
> All the very best for 2006, Thanks and Kind Regards, John R
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>
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program addiction center
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addiction recovery anonymous
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3030. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Alcohol left in food after
cooking
From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/7/2006 8:37:00 AM
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Does anyone know the name of this AA Grapevine article or when it was
published? Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of JOHN e REID
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 11:00 PM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Alcohol left in food after cooking
The Editorial Staff: The Grapevine, The Pathfinder, The Reviver, AA Around
Australia, NZ Mainstay, Bristol Fashion.
Some years ago the Grapevine published the results of a study on how much
alcohol is retained in food after cooking. As Russ J who was "AA Number
5"
in Australia used the say, "the half truths in AA".
Recently I heard some fairly newly sober saying to a gathering of fairly
new folk recently, "do not worry about how much alcohol is in the food,
it
is ALL cooked out!!!!"
For the benefit of us all, would you be so kind as to re-print the results
of that previous study?
All the very best for 2006, Thanks and Kind Regards, John R
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3031. . . . . . . . . . . . DSM-IV definitions: Abuse vs.
Dependence (Alcoholism)
From: ny-aa@att.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/5/2006 11:37:00 PM
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If we are going to discuss the distinction that is made between
"Alcohol Abuse [305]" and "Alcohol Depencence [303.9]"
it is useful
to look at the diagnostic definitions in what is called "DSM-IV"
or
"Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, ed. 4"
Here are two references to those definitions.
Note: NIAAA (National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism)
only classifies "Alcohol Depencence" as "Alcoholism" The
two
diagnoses are mutually exclusive.
----------------------
----------------------
http://www.mentalhealthchannel.net/alcohol/diagnosis.shtml
Diagnosis
Friends and family members of the alcoholic are often the first to
notice problems and seek professional help. Many times, the alcoholic
does not realize the severity of the problem or denies it. Some signs
cannot go unnoticed, such as loss of a job, family problems, or citations
for driving under the influence of alcohol. Dependence is indicated by
symptoms such as withdrawal, injuries from accidents, or blackouts.
The American Psychiatric Association has developed strict criteria
for the clinical diagnosis of abuse and dependence. The Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual -- IV (DSM-IV) defines abuse as:
* A maladaptive pattern of substance use leading to clinically
significant impairment or distress, as manifested by one (or more)
of the following, occurring within a 12-month period:
1. recurrent substance use resulting in a failure to fulfill major
role obligations at work, school, home (e.g., repeated absences or
poor work performance related to substance use; substance-related
absences, suspensions, or expulsions from school; neglect of children
or household)
2. recurrent substance use in situations in which it is physically
hazardous (e.g., driving an automobile or operating a machine when
impaired by substance use)
3. recurrent substance-related legal problems (e.g., arrests for
substance-related disorderly conduct)
4. continued substance use despite having persistent or recurrent
social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects
of the substance (e.g., arguments with spouse about consequences of
intoxication, physical fights)
* The symptoms have never met the criteria for Substance Dependence
for this class of substances.
[DSM-IV, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, ed. 4.
Washington DC: American Psychiatric Association (AMA). 1994.]
Most often, abuse is diagnosed in individuals who recently began using
alcohol. Over time, abuse may progress to dependence. However, some
alcohol users abuse alcohol for long periods without developing
dependence.
Dependence is suspected when alcohol use is accompanied by signs
of the following:
* Abuse
* Compulsive drinking behavior
* Tolerance
* Withdrawal
DSM-IV defines dependence as:
* A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically
significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more)
of the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:
1. tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
o a need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve
intoxication or desired effect
o markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount
of substance
2. withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
o the characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance
o the same (or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve
or avoid withdrawal symptoms
3. the substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer
period than was intended
4. there is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down
or control substance use
5. a great deal of time is spent in activities to obtain the substance,
use the substance, or recover from its effects
6. important social, occupational or recreational activities are given
up or reduced because of substance use
7. the substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a
persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is
likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance
(e.g., continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made
worse by alcohol consumption)
[DSM-IV, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, ed. 4.
Washington DC: American Psychiatric Association (AMA). 1994.]
----------------------
----------------------
http://www.fpnotebook.com/PSY91.htm
# DSM-IV Alcohol Abuse (1 or more criteria for over 1 year)
1. Role Impairment (e.g. failed work or home obligations)
2. Hazardous use (e.g. Driving while intoxicated)
3. Legal problems related to alcohol use
4. Social or interpersonal problems due to alcohol
# DSM-IV Alcohol Dependence (3 criteria for over 1 year)
1. Tolerance (increased drinking to achieve same effect)
2. Alcohol Withdrawal signs or symptoms
3. Drinking more than intended
4. Unsuccessful attempts to cut down on use
5. Excessive time related to alcohol (obtaining, hangover)
6. Impaired social or work activities due to alcohol
7. Use despite physical or psychological consequences
# References
1. (1994) DSM-IV, APA, p. 181-3
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++++Message 3032. . . . . . . . . . . . Green Pond, NJ
From: Russ S . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/5/2006 3:20:00 PM
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Dear History Lovers,
I live in a town 10 miles from Green Pond, New Jersey. I would like to find
the house Bill and Lois lived in before they moved to Stepping Stones. Any
suggestions on where to start?
Russ from Ogdensburg, NJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3033. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: DSM-IV definitions: Abuse vs.
Dependence (Alcoholism)
From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/7/2006 6:15:00 PM
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PLEASE NOTE. If using the DSM IV as any sort of
defining guideline for alcoholism one must remember
the following: The DSM does state that a person can
remain in total remission from alcohol dependence and
continue drinking as long as they do not exhibit the
criteria used for the diagnosis of dependence.
Abstinence from the use of beverage alcohol does not
define remission.... the lack of exhibiting the
criteria does. If one uses Alcoholics Anonymous and
the DSM in the same manner they are not congruent.
From: Mitchell K.
(mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com)
________________________
Note from the moderator:
Mitchell K. is one of our best AA historians, and an expert on the history
of
early AA in the Cleveland area, where there were more AA members at one
point in
early AA history than in either Akron or the New York area. He is responding
here to two earlier messages.
Message 2973 "Data on 3 and 5 year survival rates" from Ernest
Kurtz
(kurtzern at umich.edu)contained an interesting
recent
study by social scientists of how people who have been treated for
alcoholism
are doing 3 and 5 years afterwards, measured against how many AA meetings
they
have been attending.
Message 3031 "DSM-IV definitions: Abuse vs. Dependence (Alcoholism)
" from
(ny-aa at att.net) laid out one of the standard
definitions of
alcoholism used by social scientists, in this case the one currently used by
psychiatrists and psychotherapists in the U.S. for diagnostic purposes, to
help
understand how modern social scientists would determine which people in a
group
whom they were studying were actually alcoholics. This can help us to
understand
the kinds of criteria used in the study in Message 2973.
Mitchell K. in this present message
(mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com) points out that NEITHER the social
scientists who made the 3 and 5 year study, NOR the psychiatrists who wrote
the
DSM, were employing exactly the same kinds of definitions of "real
alcoholism"
that are given in various places within the historic heritage of Alcoholics
Anonymous.
Mitchell's warning is important, and right on target.
The AAHistoryLovers is not the right kind of forum for attacking the social
scientists for not using AA definitions. We have worked hard over the years
to
try to keep the AAHL from becoming just a chat group (there are already
plenty
of AA chat groups on the internet).
Those members of the AAHL who are AA members simply need to remember that
the
social scientists are not necessarily using AA definitions, as Mitchell K.
points out, and that any AA members reading articles written by social
scientists will need to take that into account in evaluating that data.
Glenn C. (moderator)
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++++Message 3034. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: James Houck and AA in Towson
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/7/2006 7:02:00 PM
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Unfortunately, I believe there is a much more serious and
disconcerting side to James H and his affiliation as the poster child
for the "Back to Basics" (B2B) organization.
B2B propagates revisionist AA history in a classic example of
manufacturing an idyllic scenario portraying the AA program of
Recovery in the "old days" and then manufacturing a contrasting
scenario bemoaning that "today" it's all different and has gone
downhill.
B2B engages in four practices that I find very troubling in that they
present fiction as history. The B2B practices are: (1) portrayal of
the figurative as the literal (2) broad brush portrayal of the
exception as the rule (3) portrayal of simple associations as
established cause and effect and (4) portrayal of James H's duration
of dry time to be the equivalent of his degree of accuracy and breadth
of knowledge.
B2B claims that AA is currently experiencing a 5% (or less) success
rate. This is supposedly in contrast to a 50% (they used to claim 75%
or 90%) "success rate" that AA allegedly enjoyed in the 1940s and
50s.
Their absurd assertion is unquestioningly being cited on web sites, in
literature, in academic papers and TV as established fact when it is
pure fiction.
The assertion that AA enjoyed 50%, 75% or 90% "success rates" in
the
1940s and 50s is derived solely through selective semantic citation
(which is deficient in context) and is not statistically demonstrated.
There may have been some place at some time with that kind of success,
but to use it to paint a broad-brush overall projection of AA is
ridiculous.
Outside of a small number of instances, when AA was quite small, there
is no viable and verifiable body of records or statistics maintained
that would provide any type of reliable basis for stating any type of
overall AA "success rate." The same holds true today in terms of
asserting the erroneous 5% "success rate." The folks that make
these
kinds of fatuous claims are driven by an agenda, not facts. All too
often, those making the claims do so as a disingenuous null hypothesis
that that someone else must disprove rather than them substantiating
their claims with factual evidence.
As a solution to their manufactured doom and gloom scenario, B2B
advocates the rather unremarkable hypothesis that Step choreography is
the determining factor in successful recovery. This is based on James
H's expert insight via the following gem of wisdom and experience on
B2B's web site:
"James provided Wally with three missing concepts from the
"original"
program that allowed him to successfully "fly the plane." They
were:
(1) the verbal Fourth Step (Moral Inventory), (2) the expanded Ninth
Step that included forgiveness as well as restitution, and (3) the
written Eleventh Step (Prayer and Meditation). He supplied Wally with
a four-page pamphlet, written in 1938 by a person who had attended
Oxford Group meetings with Dr. Bob Smith. This pamphlet, titled "How
to Listen to God," provided clear, concise directions on how to
conduct two-way prayer."
B2B first asserted that a verbal 4th Step should be done instead of a
written one. They later embellished this profound thesis with
suggesting the use of a particular "assets and liabilities list"
together with sponsor participation. This, along with a choreography
change to take the "forgiveness" the Big Book suggest doing in the
4th
Step and migrate it to the 9th Step (without passing GO or collecting
$200), and then squeeze in a little "quiet time" in the 11th Step
and, voila, your "success rates" soar from 5% to a 10-fold
exponential
increase to %50% or higher.
To state that both the choreography and success rate fantasies are
built on meager threads is it putting it mildly. Even more meager are
any solid demonstration of facts. The notions are based on anecdotal
hearsay or the tortuous twisting of semantic nuance.
To give credence to this theater of the absurd, B2B has elevated and
shamelessly promoted James H to demigod status in terms of his
presumed qualifications to offer expert commentary on how AA and the
Oxford Group functioned 70 years ago. The sad fact is that quite a
number of AA members, who have no way of knowing any better, have been
swallowing it hook, line and sinker.
Over the years, the B2B web site has asserted some rather creatively
evolving "connections" that were supposed to have existed between
James H and Bill W (even a mention of Dr Bob).
The first was that "James attended Oxford Group meetings with Bill
Wilson in Frederick, MD from 1935-1937." James H lived in Maryland,
Bill W lived in NY (a mere 244 miles distant one-way today via
interstate highways).
During the great economic depression (which accounts for the latter
half of the 1930s) and during World War II (which accounts for the
beginning half of the 1940s) travel in the US was no simple matter,
even from Maryland to NY. I'm not sure whether B2B's use of the word
"together" is supposed to be interpreted to mean "at the same
place,"
"at the same time" or both. In any event, it gives the impression
that
James H and Bill W were frequently in contact with one another when I
don't believe any such thing actually occurred.
The next is a claim on B2B's web site that "Although James stayed in
the Oxford Group, he did have contact with the early A.A. fellowship
through Sam Shoemaker, a mutual friend of his and Bill Wilson's. Sam
Shoemaker was the rector of the Calvary Church in New York City, which
was the United States headquarters of the Oxford Group."
This probably took some real doing on James H's part in that Sam
Shoemaker left the Oxford Group in 1941 and evicted the Oxford Group
from Calvary Hall in NYC. So it would be interesting to find out just
how James H worked through Sam Shoemaker.
In response to a question of whether James H was a member of AA, the
answer was "Yes, he is as much a member of A.A. as anyone else who has
a desire to stop drinking. However, for James the compulsion to drink
was successfully removed on December 12, 1934. He has not had a drink
of alcohol or taken a mood altering substance (including nicotine)
since that day. ... James has an A.A. home group. It meets on Thursday
nights at the Towson, MD Methodist church."
In addition to the above is a statement that James H "was a member of
the Oxford Group in the 1930's and is a member of Moral Re-Armament
today."
So he has a home group where no one knows the "longest living"
sober
member and he's a member of Moral Rearmament, which today is called
"Initiatives of Change" (perhaps James hadn't noticed). so it's
anything but clear how James H actually fits into the total picture.
In 1961, a book was published about a man named Ferdinand Waldo DeMara
Jr. The title of the book was "The Great Imposter." I can't help
but
get the same sense that a similar book could be written about B2B and
James H.
Cheers
Arthur
-----Original Message-----
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob White
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:07 AM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] James Houck and AA in Towson
I have been reading these entires with some mild amusement.
Having lived in the Towson area for most of my life (age 54) and
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