> rather well:
>
> "For Shoemaker leaving the OG, cf. Clark, The
> Oxford Group, pp. 54, 80; Shoemaker (New York) to
> Wilson, 27 June 1949:
>
> 'God has saved you from the love of the spotlight,
> Bill, at least if not from the love of it -- from
> getting too much into it, and it is one of the biggest
> things about you.... If dear Frank could have learned
> the same lesson long ago MRA might have changed the
> face of the earth.'"
>
> ernie
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++++Message 3423. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Recent photos of John Seiberling
From: Fritz689 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/3/2006 11:29:00 PM
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Glenn,
The John Sieberling pictures you shared with everyone
have the WRONG caption. John's wife's name is BETTY, my
wife's name is Katie Ings and we go to Stan Hywet Gardens
and Museum often. John and his wife BETTY still enjoy
returning to the family grounds and meeting people and
sharing a moment or two as often as they can.
Gratefully Yours,
Fred Ings
_____
From: Glenn Chesnut
(glennccc at sbcglobal.net)
Subject: Recent photos of John Seiberling
One of our members kindly sent in two recent photos
of John Seiberling, which are the ones Fred is
talking about:
http://hindsfoot.org/archive3.html
As I understood the captions which he placed on the
two photos when he sent them to me, the woman on the
right in the top picture (and on the left in the
bottom picture) is named Katie and is John Seiberling's
wife.
Fred says no, that is incorrect.
So two questions for our group: (1) Is that woman
named Betty or Katie? And (2) is that woman John's
wife or Fred's wife?
I'm getting more confused instead of less confused!
Can we have some additional expert input here?
I have met John (at one of the National Archives
Workshops in Akron which Gail LaC. organized)
but have never met his wife, so I am dependent
here on people who know both of them to help me
get the right captions on these photos.
John was Henrietta Seiberling's son, and is the last
living person who was around when the original, early
meetings between Bill W. and Dr. Bob occurred in the
summer of 1935.
Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana)
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++++Message 3424. . . . . . . . . . . . Let It Begin With Me
From: rrecovery2002 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/4/2006 10:05:00 PM
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Let It Begin With Me---Where is that quote from?
Thanks
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++++Message 3425. . . . . . . . . . . . Who were the "fortunate few"?
From: trixiebellaa . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2006 9:41:00 AM
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Who were the "fortunate few" who were able to
"give nearly all their time" to AA work at the
time the Big Book was being written?
Big Book page 19: "None of us makes a sole vocation
of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness
would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination
of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more
important demonstration of our principles lies
before us in our respective homes, occupations and
affairs. All of us spend much of our spare time in
the sort of effort which we are going to describe.
A few are fortunate enough to be so situated that
they can give nearly all their time to the work."
Does anyone know who these fortunate few were?
Thanks history lovers
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++++Message 3426. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Let It Begin With Me
From: remcuster@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2006 5:20:00 AM
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40th Anniversary AA International at Denver,
from remcuster and Theresa L. (plus remarks by
Mel B., Jan R., and Lance W.)
______________________________
From: remcuster@aol.com
(remcuster at aol.com)
It was the "Theme" for the A.A. Convention in
Denver, 1975
______________________________
From: theresa leisinger
(brideofaa at yahoo.com)
I happened upon a mention of it from "Alcoholics
Anonymous Comes of Age". p.xi
Landmarks in A.A. History 1975 40th Anniversary
International Convention at Denver Colorado.
Over 19,000 join Lois in repeating the theme,
"Let It begin with Me"
______________________________
From: Lance Weldgen
(lance_1954 at yahoo.com)
In Al-Anon's Declaration similar to AA'sWhen anyone, anywhere...."
______________________________
From: "Mel Barger"
(melb at accesstoledo.com)
IT'S IN THE SONG, LET THERE BE PEACE ON EARTH,
AND LET IT BEGIN WITH ME.
Mel Barger
______________________________
From: "Jan L. Robinson"
(jbaldwin at imbris.com)
The only one that I know is a song "Let there be
peace on earth and let it begin with me."
Jan
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++++Message 3427. . . . . . . . . . . . new find orig writer of book
September Remember
From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2006 6:32:00 PM
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i received this email on my aa history bibliography website
today May 9 2006 regarding a page I had done on the alcoholism book
September Remember by Pseudonym Elliot Taintor
From : Caleb Mason
Sent : Monday, May 8, 2006 10:31 AM
To :
Subject : September Remember
This novel was written by Gregory Mason (my grandfather) and his wife
Ruth Fitch.
Caleb Mason
I am awaiting futher news and proof about this
LD Pierce
editor aabibliography.com
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++++Message 3428. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill W.''s military awards
From: Danny S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2006 8:14:00 PM
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Hi all. I am not aware of any decorations Bill may have received in
the service. Has anyone got any inkling of what Bill was talking
about, specificially when he says in his story, "for had not the men
of my battery given me a special token of appreciation." (1:3)
What was the "token of appreciation"? Do we know or have heard of,
any
medals, commendations, honors etc.?
Thanks.
Peace,
Danny Schwarzhoff
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++++Message 3429. . . . . . . . . . . . Charlie''s lead? (of the Joe and
Charlie tapes)
From: Eric . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2006 9:47:00 AM
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I love the Joe and Charlie tapes, but along this line I was wondering
if there is anywhere online where Charlie's lead can be downloaded. I
found Joe's on xa-speakers.org but haven't found anything by Charlie,
if one even exists.
Thanks
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++++Message 3430. . . . . . . . . . . . Ebby T. Letter (1962)
From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2006 10:47:00 PM
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Envelope Postage Stamp:
Delmar N.Y.
January 23, 1962
9 AM
Envelope From:
E.T.Thacher
#1 Oakwood Place
Delmar, N.Y.
U.S.A.
Envelope To:
Mr. B Whitney Hillmer, Harbour Master,
217 Essex Street
Sarnia, Ontario
Canada
Letter:
c/o K.R.Thacher
#1 Oakwood Place
Delmar, N.Y.
January 22, 1962
Dear Whit-
Thanks for your Christmas card and I am sure you would have rec'd one
from
me, except that on Dec.5th, last, I was "took" with pneumonia
and
hospitalized until the 15th in Dallas. From there to a clinic for
convalescence until Dec. 27th, when I took a plane for N.Y. City. The
latter because the medicos said I would not be fit to work for some time,
and without employment I could not very well stick around Dallas. Good old
Bill Wilson met me at the airport and I spent a few days with the Wilsons in
their home in Bedford Hills, then on here.
Delmar is a suburb of Albany, which city is my birthplace and where I was
"brung up". It's a lot different after 24 yrs. absence!
I am feeling better, and just now getting my legs back under me. I have no
plans as yet, just trying to take it, day at a time,-and I assure you I
never have been too good at that sort of thing, but we'll give it a
whirl.
Enclosed, two snaps, all I could find but you are welcome,-they are pretty
bad, both taken in Dallas in '54. I unearthed them from a large folder
I
was able to salvage, the afternoon I cleaned my room, the day prior to my
departure.
Take it easy,-and keep those ships moving.
All the best
Ebby
(Ebwin T. Thacher)
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++++Message 3431. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Who were the "fortunate few"?
From: Jay Lawyer . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2006 11:37:00 PM
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Comments from Jay L. and Tom H.
______________________________
From: "Jay Lawyer"
(ejlawyer at midtel.net)
Bill W. for one. Due to his work history (getting
tight at the wrong times) no one would give him work
so he spent alot of time to AA work. Dr. Bob worked
at the hospital and it is claimed he worked with at
least 5000 people in his 15 years of sober life. That
just names a couple that were so situated. I would
think that some of the salesmen that went around
the country that were given names of people who
wrote to 'The Alcoholic Foundation' were also meant
to be included in that statement.
Jay
______________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: trixiebellaa
Who were the "fortunate few" who were able to
"give nearly all their time" to AA work at the
time the Big Book was being written?
Big Book page 19: "None of us makes a sole vocation
of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness
would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination
of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more
important demonstration of our principles lies
before us in our respective homes, occupations and
affairs. All of us spend much of our spare time in
the sort of effort which we are going to describe.
A few are fortunate enough to be so situated that
they can give nearly all their time to the work."
Does anyone know who these fortunate few were?
Thanks history lovers
______________________________
From: Tom Hickcox
(cometkazie1 at cox.net)
I have taken it as figurative speech with no one
in particular in mind.
I doubt that it can be demonstrated with any degree
of certainty one way or the other.
The Big Book is full of examples like this.
Tommy H in Baton Rouge
______________________________
From the moderator:
It seems to me that the operant phrase is
"nearly all their time," meaning people who
spent the majority of their time every week
working with alcoholics instead of working at
their jobs.
Dr. Bob is said to have spent very little time
on his medical practice as compared to his work
sponsoring alcoholics, which was the reason
that he and Anne had so little money for clothes,
household expenses, automobile expenses, and
so on. (See Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers)
Sgt. Bill S., who knew AA No. 3 well, says that
AA No. 3 made much less money than most lawyers
because he neglected his legal practice to do
AA work, but he told Sgt. Bill that "he got a
million dollars in gratitude" as his payment.
(As recounted in Sgt. Bill's book about early
AA: http://hindsfoot.org/kBS1.html )
It depends on how you define "nearly all their
time," remembering that Bill W. had a tendency
to exaggerate a bit.
Glenn Chesnut
South Bend, Indiana
glennccc@sbcglobal.net
(glennccc at sbcglobal.net)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3432. . . . . . . . . . . . SV: Charlie''s lead? (of the Joe and
Charlie tapes)
From: Bent Christensen . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2006 3:40:00 PM
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From: Bent Christensen
(bent_christensen5 at yahoo.com)
Hi Eric
I'm not sure if this is what you looking for,
anyway, you can find a speak where Charlie tells
his story on www.pass-it-on.dk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eric skrev:
I love the Joe and Charlie tapes, but along
this line I was wondering if there is anywhere
online where Charlie's lead can be downloaded.
I found Joe's on xa-speakers.org but haven't
found anything by Charlie, if one even exists.
Thanks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Johanna"
(flutters at charter.net)
http://www.recoverytimes.com/janc.html
http://silkworth.net/freestuff.html
______________________________
From: Azor521@aol.com
(Azor521 at aol.com)
Charlie's lead can be downloaded
Ya might give these a try.......... Floyd J.
_http://kischat.com/bigbook/joeandcharlie.html_
(http://kischat.com/bigbook/joeandcharlie.html)
_http://www.aaprimarypurpose.org/speakers.htm_
(http://www.aaprimarypurpose.org/speakers.htm)
______________________________
From: "jim_011591"
(jim_011591 at yahoo.com)
Try xaspeakers.org and The Primary Purpose
Group's website.
Regards, Jim
______________________________
From: "Robert Stonebraker"
(rstonebraker212 at insightbb.com)
Charlie Parmley spoke at the Akron Founder's
Day on June 11, 1994, so you may be able to
purchase it from a tape/cd catalogue.
Bob S.
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++++Message 3433. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Bob''s Sobriety date
From: Cheryl F . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/11/2006 12:13:00 PM
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What documentation was used in determining Dr. Bob blackout time frame?
I can find reference to everything else. How do we know it was five days
since
he left for the convention to the time he was picked up at the train
station?
Grateful so I serve,
Cheryl F
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3434. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Let It Begin With Me
From: okmizlizb . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/11/2006 3:11:00 PM
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My father attended the 1975 convention in Denver and told me that
they held hands and sang "Let there be peace on earth and let it
begin with me." Was his memory of this correct? (And/or am I telling
the story correctly?)
________________________________________
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, remcuster@... wrote:
>
> 40th Anniversary AA International at Denver,
> from remcuster and Theresa L. (plus remarks by
> Mel B., Jan R., and Lance W.)
> ______________________________
>
> From: remcuster@...
> (remcuster at aol.com)
>
> It was the "Theme" for the A.A. Convention in
> Denver, 1975
> ______________________________
>
> From: theresa leisinger
> (brideofaa at yahoo.com)
>
> I happened upon a mention of it from "Alcoholics
> Anonymous Comes of Age". p.xi
>
> Landmarks in A.A. History 1975 40th Anniversary
> International Convention at Denver Colorado.
> Over 19,000 join Lois in repeating the theme,
> "Let It begin with Me"
> ______________________________
>
> From: Lance Weldgen
> (lance_1954 at yahoo.com)
>
> In Al-Anon's Declaration similar to AA'sWhen anyone, anywhere...."
> ______________________________
>
> From: "Mel Barger"
> (melb at accesstoledo.com)
>
> IT'S IN THE SONG, LET THERE BE PEACE ON EARTH,
> AND LET IT BEGIN WITH ME.
>
> Mel Barger
> ______________________________
>
> From: "Jan L. Robinson"
> (jbaldwin at imbris.com)
>
> The only one that I know is a song "Let there be
> peace on earth and let it begin with me."
>
> Jan
>
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++++Message 3435. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Ebby T. Letter (1962)
From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/12/2006 2:09:00 AM
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Dear Friends,
You can view an actual photocopy of Ebby's 1962 letter and envelope at
www.4dgroups.org -- click Download/links, then documents.
Bob S., from Indiana
))))))))))))))))
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Bill Lash
wrote:
>
> Envelope Postage Stamp:
> Delmar N.Y.
> January 23, 1962
> 9 AM
>
> Envelope From:
> E.T.Thacher
> #1 Oakwood Place
> Delmar, N.Y.
> U.S.A.
>
> Envelope To:
> Mr. B Whitney Hillmer, Harbour Master,
> 217 Essex Street
> Sarnia, Ontario
> Canada
>
> Letter:
> c/o K.R.Thacher
> #1 Oakwood Place
> Delmar, N.Y.
>
> January 22, 1962
>
> Dear Whit-
>
> Thanks for your Christmas card and I am sure you would have
rec'd one from
> me, except that on Dec.5th, last, I was "took" with pneumonia
and
> hospitalized until the 15th in Dallas. From there to a clinic for
> convalescence until Dec. 27th, when I took a plane for N.Y. City.
The
> latter because the medicos said I would not be fit to work for some
time,
> and without employment I could not very well stick around Dallas.
Good old
> Bill Wilson met me at the airport and I spent a few days with the
Wilsons in
> their home in Bedford Hills, then on here.
>
> Delmar is a suburb of Albany, which city is my birthplace and
where I was
> "brung up". It's a lot different after 24 yrs. absence!
>
> I am feeling better, and just now getting my legs back under
me. I have no
> plans as yet, just trying to take it, day at a time,-and I assure
you I
> never have been too good at that sort of thing, but we'll give it a
whirl.
>
> Enclosed, two snaps, all I could find but you are welcome,-
they are pretty
> bad, both taken in Dallas in '54. I unearthed them from a large
folder I
> was able to salvage, the afternoon I cleaned my room, the day prior
to my
> departure.
>
> Take it easy,-and keep those ships moving.
>
> All the best
> Ebby
> (Ebwin T. Thacher)
>
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++++Message 3436. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W.''s military awards
From: khemex@comcast.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/11/2006 11:32:00 AM
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Was it a gold ring which he was given, or a wrist watch?
A GOLD RING: from khemex@comcast.net
(khemex at comcast.net)
A few years ago I had the pleasure of going to Wilson House in East Dorset
Vermont while I was in the neighborhood on business (an account of this, in
detail, was posted by Nancy a year or two ago on this site). At that time
they
had on display, in the library, a first edition Big Book opened at that
page,
and next to that sentence was a pair of reading glasses (I suppose Bill's)
with
a gold ring with an inscription from his unit in the artillery battery
during WW
I which I was led to believe was the token of appreciation that Bill was
referring to. I'm not sure if it's still there and on display, maybe someone
who's been there recently can confirm.
In Love and Service to others
Gerry W.
______________________________
A WRIST WATCH: from gary lockhart
(garylock7008 at yahoo.ca)
Hi - Gary from Canada - Down at the Wilson House
in East Dorset Vermont, there is a wrist watch, to Bill W.
from his troops. There is a neat history to go with that
watch. It was turned over by relatives a few years ago.
______________________________
From: "jim_011591"
(jim_011591 at yahoo.com)
They gave him a watch.
______________________________
From: Tom Hickcox
(cometkazie1 at cox.net)
I was in the Army during the Cuban Missile Crisis
and it was a long-established custom to bestow a
token of appreciation on officers and senior enlisted
men when they left the unit. For us lieutenants it
was usually a Zippo cigarette lighter with the
regimental crest and a certificate of appreciation
signed by the officers of the battalion. This
general custom seems to have gone back to Bill's day.
Tommy H in Baton Rouge
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++++Message 3437. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Dr. Bob''s Sobriety date
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2006 10:23:00 AM
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