Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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| Hi Cheryl
As relayed to you in a separate email, refer to "Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimers" pgs 72-75 for a recap of Dr Bob's bender at the AMA Convention in Atlantic City, NJ. The specific reference to "five days"
is on pg 73. Which states: "The blackout was certainly more than 24 hours long, because Bill and Anne had waited for five days from the time Bob left before they heard from the nurse. She (in response to Dr Bob's call) had picked him up that morning at the Akron railroad station in what was described as "some confusion and disarray."
what I have been able to glean from various sources in trying to arrive at an estimate of a likely date for Dr Bob's last drink:
IL that the 1935 Atlantic City, NJ Convention was held from Mon to Fri, June 10-14, 1935.
the web that indicates June 10-14. There are also good clues in the literature for a deduction.
Atlantic City Medical Convention and nothing was heard of him for several days."
for brevity) Dr Bob ... began drinking ... as he boarded the train to Atlantic City. On his arrival he bought several quarts on his way to the hotel. That was Sunday night. He stayed sober on Monday until after dinner... On Tuesday, Bob started drinking in the morning and ... [checked out of the hotel]... The next thing he knew ... he was ... in the ... home of his office nurse... The blackout was certainly more than 24 hours long ... Bill and Anne had waited for five days from the time Bob left before they heard from the nurse... She had picked him up that morning at the Akron railroad station... As Bill and [Dr Bob's daughter] Sue remembered, there was a 3-day sobering up period... Upon Dr Bob's return, they had discovered that he was due to perform surgery 3 days later... At 4 o'clock on the morning of the operation [Bob] ... said "I am going through with this..." On the way to City Hospital ... Bill gave him a beer ...
"goofball" [a barbiturate] on the morning of the surgery. The same information is repeated in Pass It On, pgs 147-149.
started drinking when he boarded the train on the train on the way in) June 10 Mon -he stayed sober until after dinner June 11 Tue - he began drinking in the morning - later checked out of the hotel. June 12 Wed - he went into a blackout (likely greater than 24 hours) June 13 Thu - Dr Bob's blackout continues (may have arrived at Akron train station) June 14 Fri - Dr Bob picked up by his office nurse in the AM - then by Bill later on (5 days after leaving) - day 1 of 3-day dry out June 15 Sat - Day 2 of 3-day dry out June 16 Sun - Day 3 of 3-day dry out June 17 Mon - Day of surgery - Bill gives Bob a beer and a goofball (3 days after Dr Bob's return) If, by any chance, there might be 1935 Akron City Hospital records available verifying that Dr Bob performed a surgery on June 10, 1935 then that would be conclusive. Otherwise it would be safe to conclude he was off on a bender in New Jersey. Cheers Arthur
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl F Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:14 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Dr. Bob's Sobriety date
frame?
I can find reference to everything else. How do we know it was five days since he left for the convention to the time he was picked up at the train station?
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From: Ted Harrington . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2006 1:25:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII My initial interest was in Mr. Rowland Hazard who "saved" Ebby who then "saved" Bill W. I live in La Luz, New Mexico and Rowland's name pops up in conversation around here, as one of the owners who bought and ran the old La Luz Canyon Grist Mill and later a Tile Foundry. He also had the local Inn which catered to clients from the east who would come out west to experience the real wild old west. The story around here is that his well-to-do-family did not know what to do with him and so they sent him out here to get rid of him!
______________________________ From the moderator: For an account of our current knowledge about this period in Rowland's life, see Richard M. Dubiel, "The Road to Fellowship: The Role of the Emmanuel Movement and the Jacoby Club in the Development of Alcoholics Anonymous," pp. 63 and 65-66.
http://hindsfoot.org/kDub2.html Hazard comes into the story in Dubiel's book because he was not only involved in the Oxford Group at the time he rescued Ebby from the insane asylum in August 1934, he was also a patient of Courtney Baylor (from the Emmanuel Movement).
expedition to Africa for big game and specimens for American museums. He contracted a tropical illness, and on his return to the United States in 1928 .... He established a ranch in southern New Mexico, at La Luz, and shortly organized the La Luz Clay Products Company. He had discovered substantial deposits of high-grade clay for the manufacture of items ranging from roofing tiles to decorative urns and vases. Upon establishing La Luz, he returned to the East Coast to pursue other ventures."
January 1933, Rowland went through a long period when he was virtually incapacitated by his personal problems. He ceased being actively involved in the ventures he had begun in New Mexico, and his brother- in-law Wallace Campbell had to take over all his regular business."
of Courtney Baylor, from the Emmanuel Movement. (It was during the latter part of this period, in August 1934, that he helped rescue Ebby from the insane asylum.)
only organizations other than AA during that general part of the early twentieth century who had truly notable success in treating alcoholics. Circa the very early 1940's, alcoholics were advised by knowledgeable and responsible people to turn to A.A., the Emmanuel Movement, or a psychiatrist to treat their problem.
the time he helped rescue Ebby, and as we know, it was the Oxford Group to which Bill Wilson turned for help instead of to the Emmanuel Movement. His choice of the Oxford Group may have been due to Ebby's intervention, and perhaps also seemed easier to accomplish since the Emmanuel Movement and Jacoby Club were linked to Boston, and Bill W. was living in the New York City area, where the Rev. Samuel Shoemaker's Calvary Episcopal Church was the American headquarters of the Oxford Group. ______________________________ Ted, Many of us would be grateful if you and some of the other people in New Mexico who are interested in AA history and archives could dig up any additional information about Rowland Hazard's years in La Luz. Even purely oral tradition among the AA oldtimers of that area would be useable, to help corroborate written records and perhaps fill in a few details. There is new research on Hazard and Jung which is going to be published before the end of this summer, which will change our whole picture of that story. It is turning out that the La Luz period is an important part of the story. It will shed some "luz" on certain aspects of the story that have long been buried in dark "sombra."
tradition in La Luz fits in very smoothly with the new material that is going to be coming out shortly.
South Bend, Indiana IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3439. . . . . . . . . . . . "My Name is Bill W" available on DVD in June
From: sargeantgascan . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2006 3:09:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII You might be pleased to know that "my name is bill w" is going to be released on DVD in june, I agree it is a great movie and I was really disappointed when I couldn't find it on dvd after finding my old VHS tapes picture quality so scratched up. --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "ArtSheehan" wrote:
> > The video "My Name is Bill W" is also a great film. It has one notable > historical inaccuracy (probably for poetic license and time > restraints) of showing Ebby and Bill working and drinking together in > New York City prior to the stock market collapse in the great economic > depression. Ebby lived in Albany, NY (and Vermont) and, with a very > notable exception regarding an airplane flight from Albany to Vermont, > he and Bill did not do all that much drinking together. > > Cheers > Arthur IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3440. . . . . . . . . . . . Changes to the 12x12 From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/14/2006 2:59:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Jim Blair has an excellent summary of the changes made in the sixteen printings of the First Edition Big Book in message #2258. I wonder if this sort of information is available for the 12x12? It has been apparent to me for some time that the pagination changed over the years, but I have also been told that changes were also made to the text and to the start and end of paragraphs. If this information is not available, when did the 12x12 achieve its current pagination and text? Tommy H in Baton Rouge IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3441. . . . . . . . . . . . COSTELLO, CHAUNCEY LLOYD; of Pontiac; age 95. From: Rebos7688@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/19/2006 1:00:00 PM
Surrendered to God May 11, 2006 surrounded by family and friends. Beloved husband of Vivian for 80 yrs.; father of Robert (Marge) of Houghton Lake; preceded in death by children Arthur Costello, Delores Shear, Grace McCullum, and Dawn Chancy; grandfather of 14; great grandfather of 26; and great great grandfather of 10. Long time member of All Saints Episcopal Church. Owner and operator of Costello Excavating for 40 years. Recognized as the longest living active member of AA with 64 years of sobriety. Memorial Service Wed., May 17 1:30 p.m.
at All Saints Episcopal Church in Pontiac. If you ever knew this man would you please send me your name and L.D. Date and a short story to pass on to his family. My name is Henry L.D 8-28-76 I was
fortunate enough to know Chauncey for over 36 years. E-mail- _Rebos7688@aol.com_ (mailto:Rebos7688@aol.com) ___________________________________ From: "Cherie" (odaat5 at gmail.com) Date: Sun May 14, 2006 9:19am Subject: Chauncey has passed away Chauncey, the member of AA at the International Convention that was the oldest member there, with now over 60 years of sobriety, passed away on Friday May 12, 2006. He lived in Pontiac, Michigan and started our local Thanksgiving Eve Gratitude meeting 50 something years ago. We are trying to find out more info, so far I cannot find his obituary, but am trying and when I find out more info I will pass it along here.
Cherie' P. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3442. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Changes to the 12x12 From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/16/2006 7:44:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi Tom The book "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" was published in June
1953. Bill W described the work as "This small volume is strictly a textbook which explains AA's 24 basic principles and their application, in detail and with great care."
helped with editing. It was published in two editions: one for $2.25 ($15.50 today) for distribution through AA groups, and a $2.75 ($19 today) edition distributed through Harper and Brothers for sale in commercial bookstores.
rather remarkable since it is over 50 years old. Much of the material that Bill W wrote on the Steps and Traditions in 1940s Grapevine articles went into the development of the 12and12 (see "The Language of the Heart"). A sizable portion of the Traditions material also went in to "AA Comes of Age." The time period of the book release reputedly was at a point when Bill W was experiencing the worst of his long term (and quite severe) episodes of debilitating depression. Many say it is reflected in the tone of the book, however, I don't get a sense of it. The page numbering of the early 12and12 printings do not correspond to current version of the 12and12. They will likely be off by as much as two pages. I don't know at which printing this occurred but the cause behind it was that the typeface was changed and it, in turn, changed the page numbers associated with the text. As far as I can determine there were no wording changes made to the text. Cheers Arthur
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hickcox Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 1:59 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Changes to the 12x12
printings of the First Edition Big Book in message #2258. I wonder if this sort of information is available for the 12x12? It has
been apparent to me for some time that the pagination changed over the years, but I have also been told that changes were also made to the text
and to the start and end of paragraphs. If this information is not available, when did the 12x12 achieve its current pagination and text? Tommy H in Baton Rouge ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Home is just a click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/DHchtC/3FxNAA/yQLSAA/219olB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~- >
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3443. . . . . . . . . . . . "Loose garment" slogan From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/20/2006 6:56:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII This question was posed by a member of an on-line group to which I subscribe. Any takers? I heard it in a slightly different version, though: "Wear life
like a loose coat." ?? Thanks, Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82
> I'm topic person tomorrow morning at my home group , and the slogan about "
> wearing your sobriety like loose cloak " has been in my mind. I asked my
> sister where it came from as she was the first person to tell me that, and
> she thought it was in A day at a time , or the 24 hour meditation book. I > have been looking but have been unable to find it. Does anyone know where it > originated at? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3444. . . . . . . . . . . . Carl Jung and Rowland Hazard From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/24/2006 6:16:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Group, An article has just been published in the May edition of "History of Psychology," entitled "Verification of C.G. Jung's analysis of Rowland Hazard and the History of Alcoholics Anonymous." It corrects the chronology of Rowland's life, placing his analysis in 1926 rather than the later date which has been assumed.
Carol (Fisher) Sawyer Baumann, a cousin of Rowland. Baumann trained as a Jungian in Zurich during the late 20s and 30s. Amy Bluhm found the information about Rowland in Baumann's correspondence with other family members. I've been following the Hazard story for some time myself, and last year I discovered the same information after becoming interested another Hazard cousin, Leonard Bacon. I've put my own article on a web site, http://www.stellarfire.org/ which strangely enough was completed the same week Glenn posted a hint about Amy's article.
yet, but I look forward to reading it soon. My own article takes a more critical perspective, and perhaps the combination of the two will clear up some of the questions about Jung's role in the events leading up to the formation of AA. Cora ___________________________________ Note from Glenn C., the moderator: This material, which Cora Finch and Amy Bluhm have discovered, is one of the biggest and most startling new discoveries in AA history made in recent years.
process totally corroborates the basic elements of the traditional AA story about Rowland Hazard's long analysis with Carl Jung, and adds an incredible amount of fascinating personal detail about Rowland and his family, where it turns out that two of his first cousins had also been analyzed by Jung.
for publication in "History of Psychology" by all the scholars to whom they sent it for reading, including Richard Dubiel, author of "The Road to Fellowship: The Role of the Emmanuel Movement and the Jacoby Club in the Development of Alcoholics Anonymous" (2004). http://hindsfoot.org/kDub1.html http://hindsfoot.org/kDub2.html Prof. Dubiel's book was one of the major works establishing the fact that Rowland Hazard could not have spent a year in therapy with Carl Jung during the 1930 to 1931 time period, based on documents which had been analyzed by Bill Pittman and William White (the author of "Slaying the Dragon") with similar conclusions.
of the Oxford Group people who rescued Ebby Thacher from being committed against his will to an insane asylum for his alcoholism. Ebby then got sober within the Oxford Group, and soon afterwards paid a visit to Bill Wilson, recorded at the beginning of the Big Book, where Ebby explained that there was a spiritual solution to the alcoholic compulsion.) Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3445. . . . . . . . . . . . AA medallions for anniversaries From: dcatini@bellsouth.net> . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/24/2006 10:32:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hey Fellows, Can someone plese tell me when DID AA CHIPS for anniversaries come from and who started them? Sincerely, Denise
by the fact that there were various kinds of things used in the early days, including round poker chips, square wooden pieces, and so on. If the question is, "which AA group produced the first special metal coins" which were handed out for AA anniversaries, the Indianapolis group claims that they were the ones. They had them stamped by a company that made high school and college rings. Indianapolis, Indiana, was around the 22nd AA group started, so their group did go back to an extremely early period of AA history. See Neil S. (Fishers, Indiana), "History of Indianapolis AA," February 19, 2005: http://hindsfoot.org/nindy2.html "The introduction of Tokens or Medallions probably started here. Since I originally stated this opinion we now have the substantiating correspondence, over the signature of the Archivist of AA World Wide Services Office, stating that as far as New York knows, Indianapolis was the first AA group to give out tokens." If we're talking about something other than stamped metal coins, then we're going to have other groups and other dates listed as "the first ones."
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