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RAMON: Nelmarie, fortunately my flight leaving SA won't be that soon after all. The latest news: I am on the waitinglist of departuring flights later than 20th November. You'll find out when... Don't worry, I won't have to rush that hard... Name: Leslie en Mirjam City, Country: Plettenberg Bay, South Africa Sent: 9.41 PM - 11/7 2001 Hi Ramon, How are u? Actually quite a silly question because you are staying with us now in Plett and I know you are doing very well. Isn't life great here in Plett?
Mirjam & Leslie (the Dutchies) Albergo for Backpackers Name: Chuckie Cheese City, Country: USA Sent: 5.51 PM - 11/7 2001 What the heck is a big filled stew? Is it filled with Ostrich meat? RAMON: As you might know, stew can be anything, it's stewed in the pan. So imagine it with meat, veggies, potatoes etcetera. And it can even be with Cheese, Chuckie... POSTINGS BETWEEN 11/6 and 10/21 COULD NOT BE SAFED. SORRY. Name: Martin van Tuijl City, Country: Roden, The Netherlands Sent: 11.39 PM - 10/22 2001 I demand benefit concert again very very soon!. With Wacko Jacko, Mick Jagger, Withney Houston, Paul McCartney, Elton John, David Bowie, Eric Clapton, Billy Joel, Destiny's Child, the Backstreet Boys, U2's Bono, The Who...etc etc This for all the people who are in heavy pain, crying because they lost someone very dear, suffering hunger, afraid for the winter, on the run, not knowing what the hell is going on... I demand a benefit concert for the people of Afghanistan! God bless the people of Afghanistan. 'United We Stand' Name: Brian City, Country: Los Angeles, California, USA Sent: 11.32 PM - 10/22 2001 Ramon, please. Culture is not sacrosanct! Slave owners used to argue in the US South that slavery was an integral part of their 'culture". They demanded to be left alone! High caste Indians argue that the caste system is their "culture." When Rosa Parks sat down in the white section of the bus and refused to sit in the Black section of the bus she was violating Southern "culture" which demanded separation, as in South Africa, and she was arrested. When you argue that wearing a veil is "the culture" in Moslem countries you are unintentionally aligning yourself with the most reactionary elements of those societies who benefit from keeping people (Blacks, untouchables, women) in their place with their definition of "culture." We all often have to make choice in life between certain aspects of "culture" and human rights, when those two dimensions of human existence come in conflict. Kindest Regards, Brian P.S. When someone takes you out for a hamburger they are treating you TO a hamburger, not WITH a hamburger Name: Rrrrrrroeland City, Country: Netherlands Sent: 10.51 PM - 10/22 2001 "If I say I respect religions, even though I am not religious myself, just look at me sitting at this dinning with this black hosting family in their home in a township of Stellenbosch in South Africa. And keep me sitting there." Ramon, two thumbs up from my side. You probably could not have written that response any better. Keep up, don't stop.
Hi Ramon, I too am an American, but I want you to keep wearing your pink sunglasses. I read everything you write and feel like I'm sharing your adventure. This type of world trip would not have been possible just a few years ago. You are to be applauded for your gusto! I am over 50 years old and reading your daily report and seeing the places you travel help me realize that people your age are going to help make this world a better place than they found it. Your pictures are great! Keep up the fantastic journey. I'm also thinking about adding our home to the list when you get to the US. Name: Bret City, Country: CA,USA Sent: 10.39 PM - 10/22 2001 Joan,
I think Brett from SA is right on. I also think Sebastian from UK has a very good point. So here's my two cents worth. Instead of overacting to someone's opinion and posting a painfully long in response. Maybe you should do what I am currently trying to do. Learn!! Learn about the people who did this and WHY! Don't be surprised to find that the USA is partially (putting it nicely) responsible for these same people. Ramon....enjoying your journey and opinions as always. Waiting for that next panorama to put together:-) Take Care. Name: Janske City, Country: The Netherlands Sent: 10.02 PM - 10/22 2001 I totally agree with Salome from SA...!!!! Let-me-say-my-say-for-a-day.com! Hihihi! Ramon: I'm missing you on your dutch weblog... hope you find time to update it soon, good stories and nice talks..... Name: Brett City, Country: Cape Town, SA Sent: 6.39 PM - 10/22 2001 Joan... In my opinion, the reason the U.S finds itself unpopular as a self-purported "protector of all that is good and democratic" is that it seemingly exercises muscle by over-reacting only when it's OWN interests are directly affected. I have not evidenced much or any U.S intervention in recent African conflicts (rather, gross infringements of human rights) particularly not in Zimbabwe where a mad-man (Mugabe) is clearly on the loose. YOU therefore need to look at the situation from another perspective to appreciate where other views are coming from. As far as Ramon is concerned, he is entitled to hold any view he wishes and coming from such a great democracy you ought to know that! Name: Coralie City, Country: ENGLAND Sent: 5.12 PM - 10/22 2001 Hi Ramon
(((((hugs)))) Coralie Name: Connie City, Country: USA Sent: 5.08 PM - 10/22 2001 Hey Ramon, First off, I love reading about your travels. Especially South Africa as I was just there earlier this year. (I absolutely love the Amarula also!!!) Regarding the letter you rec'd about the US/UK terrorist issues. I feel you, as well as the rest of the world are entitled to your opinion. There are going to be people who are for the attacks on Afghanistan and people who are against. This is YOUR web site and you should be able to state whatever you you feel your beliefs are. For those that don't like your opinion, well, don't return. It's as easy as that. My feelings about this issue are different than many of my friends feelings. We're still friends and respect each others opinion. Keep up the great work and I look forward to more of your travel stories. Name: Sylvia City, Country: Scotland Sent: 4.55 PM - 10/22 2001 Message to Johanna from France I don't eat haggis either, which could be something to do with being English and not Scottish. I think it has things like liver, sheep's pluck (whatever that is), onions, suet and oatmeal in it. I originate from Somerset in the West Country and down there we have faggots which are much more tasty and meaty (not to be confused with the awful frozen variety) butcher's ones are much better! What do you have in France? I bet you don't eat chicken's feet! Regards Sylvia Name: Karen City, Country: London, UK Sent: 4.09 PM - 10/22 2001 Johanna, good point! Isn't it something with sheep intestins? Name: Bram Floria City, Country: Kyle, Texas, USA Sent: 4.03 PM - 10/22 2001 Dear Ramon, Thank you for posting all of Joan's message today. She hits on some important points, and I'd like to offer you some real encouragement in your project. You are quite correct that there is "other news" in the world. In fact, your journals are the "good news we're not hearing" and I commend you for bringing humane, optimistic, inspiring and touching stories about real people. The story of Shumi's life was the kind of thing I was hoping to learn from "Let me stay for a day" and I'm proud of you for taking the time to hear it, and helping us to hear it too. Shumi is the kind of person who truly holds the world together, with grace, determination, faith and (as we say in America) "pluck." As you and I corresponded before your journey began, I reminded you that your new-found fame and media channel would make you an "expert" in many people's eyes. Like it or not, your words will continue to be taken VERY seriously by many. Your observations and thoughts on the world political situation are just as much a part of your voyage of discovery, as are your descriptions local customs, foods and languages. I've been interested not so much in what you think about a subject on a given day, so much as HOW you are coming to those conclusions. The whole world is watching you mature into a thoughtful and wise young man. You are doing this in the only way possible - by venturing into a world full of ideas, passions, beliefs, hatreds, jealousies, love, joy and (most times) shared meals. These many people will help you find out who you really are, what you really believe, and what you will commit yourself to. Back to Joan's letter briefly... Sadly, I must agree that we've entered WWWIII, and one that will have far-reaching consequences. Our government is now prosecuting this war very quietly in many countries, against many, many targets and groups. Dozens of nations are now involved in the fight - again very quietly. The next few years will be a time of "wars and rumors of wars." It will make your travels an even more unpredictable adventure, but one that will remain fascinating - and necessary. This "War on Terrorism" will also be the supreme issue which will, in varying degrees, define the questions you face in every nation. It will be the defining issue for a generation. Get ready to deal with it everywhere you go, and to allow yourself to grapple with it as you study cultures and societies throughout the world. Don't be afraid to tell what you are really feeling from time to time, and surely let us know what people in these countries are really feeling as well. It will help us to understand what to expect in the future as this battle rages on. Blessings to you, Bram Floria Kyle, Texas, USA Name: Johanna City, Country: France Sent: 3.47 PM - 10/22 2001 Sylvia from Scotland; How about your traditional dish: Haggis! I seem to remember that has to do with intestins.... Let me know if I get it wrong! Name: MJ City, Country: Denver Sent: 3.12 PM - 10/22 2001 Thank you... Love your reports, RS. If it weren't for those, this website wouldn't have the same essence. It's you and your personality that makes this project what it is. Thank you for your reports and willingness to respond to your audience-even though THAT must get tiring sometimes. Take care Name: Salome City, Country: Table View, South Africa Sent: 2.50 PM - 10/22 2001 Hello Ramon, Maybe you should add another link to your page: Let-me-say-my-say-for-a-day. Everyone writing Political essays can get rid of the anger they have inside them on that page! Your reports are great - keep it up ... and please don't just write about the weather ;-) Hope to see you soon ! Salomé
Name: Lazer Guided Melodies City, Country: Colony Woods Sent: 1.55 PM - 10/22 2001 Always pleasant people. I realize that for someone to invite a stranger into their home, they are naturally going to hospitable and friendly etc etc. Sometimes it feels like their is not enough "real world" reports.. including some confrontation or disagreements, romantic interludes etc etc... not that i wish that on the travelling dutchman. That seems to just happen on the messageboard among the fans.. funny. Anyway, enjoy enjoy!! Oh yeah, and i totally agree that political discussions are not appropriate here. Adidas!! Name: Karen City, Country: London, UK Sent: 1.25 PM - 10/22 2001 Ramon as a trolley-dolley? Hmmm, as long as we get to see the pictures of him in an air hostess uniform! I would very much prefer this message board to be about Ramon's travels and all the things he is experiencing. Ofcourse that does inlcude a certain amount of politics, which is very interesting as well, as long as we don't get all those long political statements from everyone. Name: Sylvia City, Country: Scotland Sent: 1.16 PM - 10/22 2001 Hi Carinus In reply to your message, no, we don't eat fish eyes, intestines, hippo, crocodile. Here in Scotland we eat things like fresh salmon (minus the head!)nice beef steaks, pork, beef, lamb and chicken (but only the breast and legs, never the feet! Regards Sylvia Name: Janske City, Country: The Netherlands... Sent: 1.01 PM - 10/22 2001 It doesn't really matters where he's heading.. as long as i can keep up with him! I like the idea of the boat! It's just another way of travelling, I would like to know what Ramon thinks of this! Working for a trip by boat or airplane. He might be a good steward! Name: carinus City, Country: stellenbosch Sent: 12.54 PM - 10/22 2001 Sylvia
Your wording "disgusting" in your letter deserves some clarification. Do you eat fish-eyes, intestines, hippo, crocodile or not? Or are you adverse to it? "disgusting" is a shit word. Shumi eats / sells it cos it is an African delicay (and tradtion) cheers, Carinus
Sometimes I really have to laugh because of all the serious comments here. Not because I think they're stupid but because they don't belong here. Ramon has a funny way of reporting and messaging but now it looks like he has to guard and protect the worldpeace... Gosh, I want more gossip and ridiculous things he experiences during his travelling... I miss Ramon in my real life, here he is sort of in my life again... don't spoil that with politics and worldproblems, Ramon can't solve them! Name: Erwan City, Country: Netherlands Sent: 12.45 PM - 10/22 2001 Ok, here's a non-political issue: I just checked the country/invitations - list and I only see one other country with an invitation in Afrika (Ghana)... it's obvious that Ramon won't be travelling north through Afrika(as I hoped he would do). Although South-Africa is interesting enough to stay at least another month I wonder what Ramons next destination will be... I think he'll go East not West, because he told us he wants to visit the US in the last part of his travels. Offcourse this depends on what kind of offers he gets... I would like to see him make a trip on a boat, a real boat like an oiltanker where he would have to work to cross the ocean or something like that... What's your opinion ? Where do you want Ramon to go ? Name: Brian City, Country: Durban, South Africa Sent: 12.06 PM - 10/22 2001 Yep, Sebastian summed it up perfectly. Well done, mate. Ramon, don't let politics get the better of you. You are strong, and we admire you hugely. I think it was the band Five that said "Keep on moving". Hamba kahle Brian
City, Country: London, UK Sent: 11.43 AM - 10/22 2001 Just read Sebastiaans message: totally agree! Name: Karen City, Country: London, UK Sent: 11.42 AM - 10/22 2001 Am totally agreeing with Ramon (see online report 19/10) and Craig (see below). Fair enough that people wanna express their feelings and statements, but sometimes it does get a bot over the top (like Joan's report who seems to be drawing conclusions when she shouldn't). But hey, looks like we keep coming back to the ultimate statement: freedom of speech for everyone! Name: Sebastiaan City, Country: Woking, UK Sent: 11.41 AM - 10/22 2001 Hi all,
However much I like a healthy debate, I also like debates and comments to be in the right and appropriate place. If I want to discuss politics, I go to Salon. If I want to discuss nonsense, I go to fark.com. If I want to discuss a guy who travels around the world, I go here. I like it here and think Ramon is doing a great job traveling around the world using the internet. He is going to travel all over the world and will encounter a lot of political views all over the place. Please don't allow yourself to push him into one political view because he needs just what he's doing now: stay neutral and tell us all about it! Thanks Ramon for all the great reports!
Isn't it a pity that some contributors, particularly, one Joan, from the USA wants to exercise her right to enjoy the freedom of expression as rightfully enshrined in her country's constitution; but at the same time protests most vehemently when Ramon chooses to do likewise to express his own thoughts freely. I suggest that bit of open-mindedness on her part, and respect for the views of others would be order.
Hi all
Ramon's comments about the old pass laws from way back when reminded me of the situation in my very young days. It was indeed necessary for people to carry their "pass", and it was used as an identity document. It also reminds me of what a Belgian visitor was telling me about two weeks ago. She said that, in Belgium, they have to carry their identity document with them all the time. Here in SA, most people don't carry their ID books, simply because they are passport structure little books, and get destroyed in pockets, and in the laundry. But we do have to carry our driver's licences if we are driving. So, although the carrying of passes back in the 70's was a nuisance, the idea seems to be quite popular, for various reasons. It is the reason in South Africa in the 70's that was wrong. The carrying of some form of identity is quite acceptable. Still a nuisance, but apparently normal. Regards
Brian Name: Joan City, Country: USA Sent: 5.43 AM - 10/22 2001 J, I agree, even drunks get a trial. But...........I do not feel these terrosists deserve a trial. Sorry, that's just how I feel. If it were a declared war ahead of time, and a war crime was committed, perhaps I'd feel they should go against a war crimes tribunal..........but this was not a declared war when they attacked the USA people and military and government. It was a clear act of terrorism. Nor is it now a decalred war. All bets are off! Sorry, this is not the forum for this, as this should be a "happy" place discussing and sharing Ramon's travels. I just wanted to tell Ramon I disagreed with his rose colored glasses. But we can chat, debate, in the chat room. Joan
City, Country: California, USA Sent: 5.04 AM - 10/22 2001 Debate is healthy. I'm not sure what thebest plan is. Even drunk drivers who kill in America get a trial, though their act may be considered "cowardly". The Christian Science Monitor is an international newspaper that tends to present the world through the people who live in it, rather than from the events and sensationalism.Their web site currently offers reprints of an Oct 18 article trying to explain where the attacks philosophically came from. J Name: Joan City, Country: USA Sent: 3.37 AM - 10/22 2001 Ramon,
I think your travels are fantastic, but I think you are presenting an idealistic view, and "trying" to impart that view on others. You want to present a view that every culture is wonderful and "perfect" because it is "their" culture. I refer specifically, and unabashidly, to your obvious protests to the USA and British "war" and bombing of the Afghanistan Taliban. You are correct in telling your hosts who asked your opinion that this is NOT a war on the Muslim religion, it is a war on religious extremists, the Taliban terrorists. But you are wrong in saying, and continueing to quote Ghandi "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". I believe that this pacifist attitude is what allows the people like the Taliban to continue. They DO NOT DESERVE to live in this world, and they do not DESERVE any communication or negotiation from any modern day head of state or country. Yes, I am an American, and a proud American. The Taliban performed a COWARDLY act by planning and plotting the September 11th massacre on the World Trade Center, the U.S. Military Headquarters "The Pentagon", (sometimes people forget the U.S. Military WAS attacked!!), and potentially the White House, home of the President od the USA, before the 4th plane was downed by sacrificing civilians who realized what was happening. Had those people not acted, most likely The Capitol building or the White House would have been hit by that 4th plane. This was all clearly an attack on the USA, militarily and governmentally. I think sometimes people just think it was an attack on "office buildings in New York City!" WRONG!!!!!!!!!! It was an attack on the USA people and military and government!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THINK ABOUT IT! Thousands died in just hours, over what? Because Osama Bin Laden and TERRORISTS do not like Western "influence"?? They prefer the degrading and enslaving of women? They don't want any influence from a modern world? They prefer living in the past, versus moving forward into the 21st century? I think this is not the peoples will, but the will of the few extremists and "holier that thou" folks. My guess is the common folks would love to be able to practice their religion in a MODERN world. Yep, I bet even with the big old yellow M that you so despise! How would people respond if there was a group of terrorist radicals in any other country insisting on Medieval or Victorian dress and morals and religious practices? It is not even HUMANE to force these women to wear the shrouds and face masks, and the girls/women cannot attend school or work for a living. They must remain "slaves", uneducated, and BEG on the street to feed the children of the men who impregnate them. For your information, please check this site: http://www.rawa.fancymarketing.net/index.html Muslims can live very peacefully in this world - it is the radicals that must go. Just as Hitler was a radical. The USA has been the "melting pot" of all cultures and religions for hundreds of years, and there is no problem with that. We love the diversity and all that it has contributed to our society. 200 years ago, had we had the current attitude of the Taliban, people would have been persecuted for introducing their religions. (Yes, I know, we had a problem with Witchcraft in early colonial times!) The USA, as a world super power, does look out for its own economics and safety, and for the safety of allies. The Middle East is a very volatile area, and yes, of course, OIL is an issue. This was apparent in the Gulf War when all the oil fields were set afire. We were able to get the invaders out of Kuwait, but the enemy knew the issues, and set oil fields afire. Again, cowardly. Only resulting in all the U.N sanctions against aid to innocent people, etc. Innocent people suffer, in all of these cases. Just as in WWII. This IS WWIII, but a whole different kind of war. A war against terrorists and COWARDS who have invaded and infiltrated many countries. They could be your neighbors out watering the lawn right now, who knows? This is not a war against Muslims or a war against Afghanistan - it is a war against an undeground terrorist network. They have done extensive damage for 15 years now, or more. They tried to topple the World Trade Center before with bombs in the parking garage. They figured out a new way to do it. Horrific!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The events of Sept 11th were the last straw to the FREE world, as the saying goes. "No more negotiations, no more communications, no more concessions! This is WAR!" Do you REALLY think George W. Bush or any free world leader would sit down with Bin Laden or any of his GANG and talk peace negotiations now? As if "we" would trust Osama, and his murderers at a negotiating table? When they struck Sept. 11th, they hit a nerve resonating around the world. I am surprised you did not have that same nerve, quite frankly, as one who purports people and freedom and peace! Surely you do not feel the people of Afghanistan are free, and ready to "let-you-stay-for-a-day."? Any invitations from Kabul? I am a very tolerant person, and admire your travels, but I think you have a view that everyone is beautiful and everyone is perfect and every culture is perfect and every person is perfect. I think you have not yet met your bad match yet. I hope you don't, as so far you have met great people and great hosts. But someday you must take off those rose colored spectacles and realize the world is not perfect, and "an eye for an eye is justified" right now is the current situation. "An eye for an eye will make the world blind" was a saying perhaps idealistic and hopeful at the time - but unfortunately, not appropriate regarding the attrocities of September 11th. Peace be with you and your hosts. Great travels, great hosts, great pictures. I have learned much about the countries and the people. Just don't be "blind" to the realities of this "new" world!! It is not a war against a culture or a religion or a country - it is a war against fanatics and terrorists. I am not affiliated with any organization, I am just a citizen of the USA.
I know, I know, all countries have sufferred over the years. Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their countrymen! It's 2001! Time for 2001 culture, not year 1,000 culture! Times moves on, ya know? Throw off the old repressive cultures and ways, and get with the 21st century. There is no longer a time to tolerate the oppressions of the Taliban! There is no longer a time to tolerate the terrorism and attrocities of the Taliban. We must all erradicate this cancer, the terrorist underground, and work towards world peace. It IS just like Hitler - be glad we won that war! "An eye for an eye is a very good thing" regarding this situation!!!!!!!!! GOD BLESS AMERCIA, and all the FREE WORLD!!!!!!!!!! Down with people of all cultures and nationalities being oppressed and terrorized! And also for you Roman, you say you are not a religious person. I would think you would be more open to peace amoung all men/women, versus religious fanaticism! These "wars" are about religious fanaticism! Sorry for the seemingly weak term, but this is "rediculous!" to me that you would feel this way. You speak with forked tongue. One time you say you are not religious, the next time you say these religions and cultures need to have their way. Decide. Are you pro Taliban or not? Frankly, I cannot tell from your posts. Regards, and thanks again for all your travel updates and pictures. I am NOT an "enemy", just asking for some clarifications! J Joan Yüklə 1,59 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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