Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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As told by Chief Blackhawk (Detroit, 40 years in October, 1998), sitting on the front porch of Dr. Bob's house at 855 Ardmore in Akron, Ohio to Floyd H. of Spring, Texas. ORGANIZATIONS There are vital reasons that we are not allied with any sects, denominations, politics, organizations, or institutions. You want to know what they are?
organization taught us about the danger of trying that. Get in with another organization, they bring their values and opinions and they seldom are what we know works in helping drunks. When the Clarence Snyder (Home Brewmeister) group formed in Cleveland, an article ran in the Cleveland newspaper, The Plain Dealer.
were low-bottoms who needed 3-5 days of hospitalization. After being turned down by all the local hospitals and after helping the son of a person associated with the Salvation Army, that organization told Clarence they'd make some beds available for alcoholics. In accepting their aid, two things happened. First, AA became allied with an outside organization; next, they fell under that organization's philosophy about recovering from alcoholism and compromised what the alcoholics knew really worked. In order to get the beds, the AA's violated their own procedures. I asked: So what was that organization's philosophy that went against what AA's had been doing? They answered: The Cleveland Salvation Army had a policy of limiting bed space for anyone to a total of three months. Their motive was noble: We'll help you down-and-out's to get by until you get a job and a place of your own, but to motivate you, weire putting a time limit on our assistance -- you have three months, max. Now, for the alkies coming in, they told them the same thing but added, You also have to visit with a recovered alcoholic daily; that is, you have to meet with them 90 times in 90 days, and we're gonna check to make sure you do. Miss a meeting and you have no bed. You're back on the streets. So instead of taking the drunks through in 3 or 4 hours the way we always did it, or a matter of days at the most, we're now into this 90-in-90 plan.
thing we hear so often today -- Go to 90 meetings in 90 days?
desperate to get beds they thought they had to have, compromised their approach to working the steps quickly. But to their great credit, the Cleveland AA's keep meticulous records with Clarence's insistence) and their stats revealed that no one gained any long-term sobriety using that plan. So Cleveland separated itself from the Salvation Army with a valuable lesson: stick to the methods proven successful -- alkies taking alkies through the steps and doing it pronto. After Cleveland got back to doing that instead of the 90-in-90-Salvation-Army plan, the AA's got a 93% success rate over the next several decades.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3638. . . . . . . . . . . . "Take what you need and leave the rest"
From: Paul S. . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/17/2006 8:50:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi everybody In another cyberforum came up a discussion about this AA motto or saying. Something like "Take what you want and leave the rest." It is widely used and can (in my opinion) also be dangerous. (It seems to me that it is wiser to remember the motto, which comes straight from the Big Book, p. 59: "Half measures awailed us nothing")
one more of those things which appeared somewhere and just started being repeated, without anybody ever knowing where it came from? And BTW: Thanks for this interesting-informative forum and its excellent "search-machine." (This time it however "failed.")
From: gbaa487 . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/15/2006 12:51:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII in the Big Book there are two letters written by Dr. Silkworth. What is the time frame between the two letters, and why were there two eventually written? Thanks IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3640. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "Take what you need and leave the rest" From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/19/2006 3:17:00 PM
(serenitylodge at bellsouth.net)
that is heard often at meetings in Al-anon, and is used in their conference approved literature, more
than once. Two at-hand references are: Courage to Change, pg 117 (April 26 reading) and pg 321 (November 16 reading). Now, where that saying originated, I don't know. It is an "axiom" that appears in almost all 12-step literature.
certain,
but I didn't hear it when I first got sober and certainly, my home group taught
me the reverse that was referenced, "half measures avail us nothing." When I did a "search," it came up in all sorts of religious and secular contexts and was not limited to recovery material, but nothing in AA literature, although it was reported in AA settings (groups, chat rooms, e-mail exchange lists, etc.). I believe the saying was originally intended to be used to indicate that there
are some things one hears at meetings that simply are not part of recovery via
the 12-steps, and while they might be useful, they are not necessarily tools that the 12 steps perpetuate, so one is free to use them or not. The closest thing I heard later on in AA came from my sponsor, which I've used
myself: "Take what you need today and put the rest on the shelf for later
reference." That's the best I can do you for now. If I find any other references, I'll forward them. Jon Markle Raleigh
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3641. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Dr. Silkworth''s two letters From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/19/2006 8:14:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Good morning all! The first letter in "The Doctor's Opinion" was written by Dr. Silkworth on 7/27/38 as a referral letter for AA. The second "statement" is taken from a few different articles that Silky wrote pieced together (see previous posts). I've never been able to find every paragraph in the Big Book from this second "statement" in Silky's articles so I would suspect that some of it even came from conversations that Bill had with him. Namaste.
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of gbaa487 Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:52 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Dr. Silkworth's two letters in the Big Book there are two letters written by Dr. Silkworth. What is the time frame between the two letters, and why were there two eventually written? Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3642. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: "Take what you need and leave the rest" From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/19/2006 8:46:00 AM
flattery." Such seems to be the case for the common expressions and catchphrases in AA today. Slogans and other sayings will eventually spread through AA if they strike members as notable and useful. Discovering primacy in terms of where catchphrases originated is by no means easy to do with confidence due to the autonomous and anonymous nature of AA. Plus there is just far too frequent reliance by members on dubious anecdotal and ambiguous sources that are much more the product of fertile imagination rather than well researched factual information (e.g. the recent posting on "90 meetings in 90 days"). While there are history books and articles maintained by the Fellowship (e.g. AA Comes of Age, Grapevine articles, etc.) local history documentation is quite a hit or miss affair. It might be possible to get an approximation of when particular sayings started in certain locales, but pinning down the origin location is, at best, very difficult. The earliest documented sources I can find thus far for the "take/leave" catchphrase are from 1962 and 1985 Grapevine issues: June 1962 Grapevine article "The Twelve Steps Revisited/Step 8" by J E
from Guilford, CN. "Take this thing cafeteria style I was advised. Select what you want and can digest, and leave the rest until later." September 1985 Grapevine article "Your Move" by V F from Eureka, KS.
expect 'our meeting in print' to be different from any other meeting? Take what you need and leave the rest." As far as I have been able to determine to date, the Big Book was never intended to be the "final word" or the be-all and end-all source that so many members make it today. If it were, the 12and12 would not have been written (by the same author). Also the parsing of a particular catchphrase will vary quite a bit among members, particularly when it comes to reading things into a sentence that are not expressly written there. It's one of the things that makes AA so interesting and enjoyable.
book "The Common Sense of Drinking" by Richard Peabody. It strengthened the concept of alcoholism as an illness and contained the statement "Half measures are to no avail." The book was a prominent reference source in the early AA Fellowship. Peabody died drunk so the catchphrase did not appear to serve him very well.
Arthur
-----Original Message----- From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul S. Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 7:51 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "Take what you need and leave the rest" Hi everybody In another cyberforum came up a discussion about this AA motto or saying.
It is widely used and can (in my opinion) also be dangerous. (It seems to me that it is wiser to remember the motto, which comes straight from the Big Book, p. 59: "Half measures awailed us nothing")
things which appeared somewhere and just started being repeated, without anybody ever knowing where it came from?
excellent "search-machine." (This time it however "failed.")
History
From: chesbayman56 . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/19/2006 1:37:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello Folks, I have been so Busy I simply for got the beginging of this month this Month. Significant August dates in AA history Aug 1934 - Rowland H and Cebra persuade court to parole Ebby T. to them.
Aug 1939 - Dr. Bob wrote and may have signed article for Faith magazine. Aug 1981 - Distribution of Alcoholics Anonymous passes 3 million. Aug 1, 1943 - Washington Times-Herald (DC) reports on AA clubhouse, to protect anonymity withholds address. Aug 3, 1954 - Brinkley S. gets sober at Towns Hosp after 50th detox. Aug 8, 1879 - Dr. Bob born in St. Johnsbury, VT. Aug 9, 1943 - LA groups announce 1000 members in 11 groups. Aug 11, 1938 - Akron and NY members begin writing stories for Big Book. Aug 15, 1890 - E M Jellinek is born, author of "The Disease Concept of Alcoholism" and the "Jellinek Curve". Aug 16, 1939 - Dr Bob and Sister Ignatia admit 1st alcoholic to St Thomas Hospital, Akron, Ohio. Aug 18, 1988 - 1st Canadian National AA Convention in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Aug 19, 1941 - 1st AA Meeting in Colorado is held in Denver. Aug 25, 1943 - AA group donates Big Book to public library in Quincy, MA. Aug 26, 1941 - Bill writes Dr Bob to tell him Works Publishing has been incorporated Aug 28, 1954 - "24 Hours a Day" is published by Richmond W.
Sales of the Big Book passes 3,000,000 - August 1981 1st meeting in Orange County, California held in Anaheim - August, 1941
passed. I always looked forward to the begining of the month when she posted it. Please feel free to contribute to this list. I will try to keep it accurate, as best I can, so it would be great if you can
provide the source of the date. The best way to to get the information is to e-mail it to me Directly. In love and service, Billy C.
Annapolis, Md IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3644. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Silkworth''s two letters From: johnlawlee . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/19/2006 12:58:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "gbaa487" wrote:
> > in the Big Book there are two letters written by > Dr. Silkworth. > > What is the time frame between the two letters, > and why were there two eventually written? > > Thanks > A photo of first Silkworth letter is dated July 27, 1938, and included in Dale Mitchel's 2002 biog of Doctor Silkworth,The Little Doctor Who Loved Drunks [Hazelden-Pittman Archives Press]. That biog indicates that the second letter was dated sometime in early 1939. The first letter from Silkworth is a rather lackluster, general endorsement of the experience of an [unamed] Bill Wilson, a patient who was under treatment from Silkworth three times. The second endorsement letter from Silkworth is much more specific and sweeping. The second letter speaks of the phenomenon of craving, the need for a psychic change, and the need for something more than human power. Silkworth refers to the problem, the solution and the plan of action. Nothing in the Silkworth biog indicates why the second endorsement letter was requested. I have to assume that Bill and Hank, the promoters of the soon-to-be-published book, felt the book needed a stirring rave from a mainstream source. They likely felt that the first letter lacked specifics and sufficient enthusiasm. The text of the Big Book, between the two Silkworth letters, indicates that, "the physician who, at our request, gave us this letter, has been kind enough to enlarge upon his views..." Bill and Hank had both been treated at Towns Hospital, and I imagine one of them just asked Silkworth to amplify the doctor's viewpoint in a followup letter. John Lee Pittsburgh IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3645. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "Take what you need and leave the rest" From: johnlawlee . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/19/2006 4:21:00 PM
Alanon. The cliche about "Take what you need..." is not in the basic Al-Anon literature. The two references to the cliche are just reflections by two Alanon members who heard the cliche at Al-Anon meetings. I don't believe you'll find a reference to this cliche that predates the 1982 pop tune "Reap the Wild Wind". john lee pittsburgh __________________________
(serenitylodge at bellsouth.net) "Take what you need and leave the rest" is a "saying" that is heard often at meetings in Al-anon, and is used in their conference approved literature, more than once. Two at-hand references are: Courage to Change, pg 117 (April 26 reading) and pg 321 (November 16 reading).
> Raleigh IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3646. . . . . . . . . . . . Clarence S.''s visit to Edmonton From: The Wilsons . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/23/2006 1:18:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I came across a news article about Clarence S attending the 20th annual Alberta AA Conference in Edmonton. Does anyone know when this conference was held?
the rest" From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/19/2006 7:46:00 PM
(kurtzern at umich.edu) Hi Art, As usual, you are so right. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, Bill W. fairly often wrote in letters to someone who had questioned something or other in the Big Book that he had not meant it "to be the last word,"
but that "members of the fellowship would crucify" him if he tried to change a word, which was one reason why he wrote the essays in the 12and12. In fact, even while composing those pieces (which first appeared in the AAGV), Bill wrote to some that he hoped the essays on which he was working would help to "clarify" some things in the Big Book. Some
of those letters, as I recall, are specifically cited in the notes to *Not-God*. ernie kurtz ______________________________ From: "Art Boudreault" (artb at netwiz.net) Dear Paul and others, The closing that is read at Al-Anon meetings begins this way. "In closing, the opinions expressed here were strictly those of the person who gave them. 'Take what you liked and leave the rest'." I have found that much of what is stated in Al-Anon from the early days is rooted in AA literature, but I am unaware where this statement from the AA literature might lie. The "Al-Anon Family Groups Classic Edition", pages 165 - 157, explains that the Al-Anon closing was added to the book "Al-Anon Family Groups" at its fourth printing in May 1973. The statement is clearly meant to warn the members that statements made in meetings by members may or may not be appropriate Al-Anon philosophy or policy. It has nothing at all to do with the statements in Al-Anon's Conference Approved Literature.
possible that members of Al-Anon who became AA members or AA members who became members of Al-Anon brought it back to AA. As an aside, AA members who had problems with others who drank too much were officially allowed to attend Al-Anon meetings by vote of the Al-Anon World Service Conference in 1969. Prior to that vote it was up to the autonomy of the Al-Anon group whether to allow AA members into their closed Al-Anon meetings. Bill and Lois always seemed to imply in their early statements that AA members were to attend AA meetings and their relatives, Al-Anon meetings. Bill was clear in stating that AA members should not participate in Al-Anon policy, even if they were also members of Al-Anon. In Al-Anon, the World Service conference made this policy official in 1975 as a response to the 1969 vote, because by 1975, many AA members were finding help in Al-Anon and wanted to be part of the service structure as well. Sincerely, Art Boudreault artb@netwiz.net ______________________________ From: Arkie Koehl (arkie at arkoehl.com) On Aug 19, 2006, at 2:46, ArtSheehan wrote: As far as I have been able to determine to date, the Big Book was never intended to be the "final word" or the be-all and end-all source that so many members make it today. Thanks for this, Art. I think Bill would be embarrassed at the iconic status we've conferred on the BB. Arkie IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3648. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Re: Dr. Silkworth''s two letters From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/19/2006 9:37:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi John Dr Silkworth's July 27, 1938 letter was written under the letterhead of the Charles B Towns Hospital which enjoyed a national reputation in alcohol and drug addiction treatment. In part, it states:
the extraordinary possibilities of rapid growth inherent in this group they mark a new epoch in the annals of alcoholism. These men may well have a remedy for thousands of such situations. You may rely absolutely on anything they say about themselves." This hardly sound like "a rather lackluster, general endorsement" as you frame it. The July 27, 1938 letter was originally written as a letter of reference for Bill W to aid in fund raising for the Big Book project. The Alcoholic Foundation was legally established as a charitable trust the following month (August 5). The letter also served as a medical endorsement in the foundation's fund raising efforts and later was included in its entirety in the Big Book introduction "The Doctor's Opinion.".
the Big Book based on a suggestion by Dr Esther L Richardson of John Hopkins Hospital. She was sent a prospectus which included two sample book chapters ("There Is A solution" and "Bill's Story"). A July 18, 1938 letter she wrote to Bill W included a rave review of the two chapters and a recommendation that:
of the alcoholic's medical and social problem to write an introduction."
written specifically to be included in the Big Book. Part of his introduction states "There was, therefore, a sense of real satisfaction when I was asked to contribute a few words on a subject which is covered in such masterly detail in these pages."
Silkworth or "The Doctor's Opinion" introduction were written but it was part of the multilith manuscript distributed for review in January 1939. My best "guesstimate" would be that it was written in December
1938. After review of the multilith manuscript, Dr Silkworth was one of the reviewers who suggested easing the tone of the book from "you must" to "we ought." (see AA Comes of Age pgs 167-168). Bill W wrote "And we must never forget that it was Dr Silkworth who wrote the introduction to the first edition of Alcoholics Anonymous, giving the volume medical standing." As an item of AA trivia "The Doctor's Opinion" began as page 1 in the
1st edition and was not changed to Roman numerals until the 2nd edition. The basic text ended at page 174 in the 1st edition, not 164 as it does today. Nobody really knows why Bill W renumbered the pages but there is much entertaining speculation on the matter. Dale Mitchel's biography of Dr Silkworth is a wonderful read and quite revealing of the magnificent character and commitment of Dr Silkworth. He served as a non-alcoholic trustee on the Alcoholic Foundation Board the two years prior to his death and is reputed to have treated over 40,000 alcoholics in his lifetime at Towns and Knickerbocker Hospitals in NYC.
Arthur
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johnlawlee Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 11:58 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Dr. Silkworth's two letters --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "gbaa487" wrote:
> > in the Big Book there are two letters written by Dr. Silkworth. > > What is the time frame between the two letters, and why were there two > eventually written? > > Thanks
> A photo of first Silkworth letter is dated July 27, 1938, and included in Dale Mitchel's 2002 biog of Doctor Silkworth,The Little Doctor Who Loved Drunks [Hazelden-Pittman Archives Press]. That biog indicates that the second letter was dated sometime in early 1939. The first letter from Silkworth is a rather lackluster, general endorsement of the experience of an [unamed] Bill Wilson, a patient who was under treatment from Silkworth three times. The second endorsement letter from Silkworth is much more specific and sweeping. The second letter speaks of the phenomenon of craving, the need for a psychic change, and the need for something more than human power. Silkworth refers to the problem, the solution and the plan of action. Nothing in the Silkworth biog indicates why the second endorsement letter was requested. I have to assume that Bill and Hank, the promoters of the soon-to-be-published book, felt the book needed a stirring rave from a mainstream source. They likely felt that the first letter lacked specifics and sufficient enthusiasm. The text of the Big Book, between the two Silkworth letters, indicates that, "the physician who, at our request, gave us this letter, has been kind enough to enlarge upon his views..." Bill and Hank had both been treated at Towns Hospital, and I imagine one of them just asked Silkworth to amplify the doctor's viewpoint in a followup letter. John Lee Pittsburgh Yahoo! Groups Links IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3649. . . . . . . . . . . . Richard Peabody died drunk? Documentation? From: Mel Barger . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/23/2006 8:59:00 AM
drunk?
melb@accesstoledo.com (melb at accesstoledo.com) _________________________________________
Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] "Take what you need and leave the rest"
1931
> book "The Common Sense of Drinking" by Richard Peabody. It > strengthened the concept of alcoholism as an illness and contained the > statement "Half measures are to no avail." The book was a prominent > reference source in the early AA Fellowship. Peabody died drunk so the > catchphrase did not appear to serve him very well. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3650. . . . . . . . . . . . Johnstone P.''s story, "You have to give it away..." From: kilroy@ceoexpress.com> . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/20/2006 1:23:00 AM
P. from Ohio? His story appeared in the second edition of the Big Book and was missing thereafter.
they only use one of his four quotes, the one that states, "You have to give it away if you want to keep it." Kilroy W. 4021 Club Philadelphia PA
A Member of CEOExpressSelect - www.ceoexpress.com IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3651. . . . . . . . . . . . 90 in 90 days in Bright Star Press pre-1970 pamphlet From: ricktompkins@comcast.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/21/2006 2:19:00 AM
suggestion in AA at least once? In a Bright Star Press pamphlet that definitely pre-dates 1970 (when the company was printing in Moline, Illinois before moving to Texas) I recently found evidence to what may erroneously be getting attributed to treatment centers.
Army story --fabricated? -- adds to the mythology of the phrase's first use.)
AA pamphlets) titled "Handles" that has 40+ pages of AA phrases, slogans, and brief recovery support pieces (Handles to help in Sobriety), I found this phrase at the top of one page:
IT WE CAN REFUND YOUR MISERY" Oldtimers used this phrase, all or part of it, when I came around in the 1980s, so I respectfully estimate its AA use from at least the 1960s.
it's an original AA phrase, too, but as to the date of its origin perhaps there's a reference in an early AA Grapevine (via their online archives search program).
discussion meetings From: jerry . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/21/2006 5:24:00 PM
(1) when and where what we now call closed AA meetings (alcoholics only and no spouses allowed anywhere near the premises) first began to be held, and (2) when and where the idea of what are called "open discussion meetings" on modern AA meeting schedules first began to appear. House meetings, which were still held frequently in the U.S. for a long time, commonly had the alcoholics in the living room, but the spouses were in the kitchen, and in the average modest American five room family home, they were within easy earshot of everything that was discussed in the living room, and all parties were involved in the "meeting after the meeting" which occurred afterwards. So this is not a simple, open and shut question of when the alcoholics within the Oxford Group first began to hold meetings "for alcoholics only." CLOSED MEETINGS From "jerry" (jerrytwotord at hotmail.com)
I've done on our founders seems to point to the fact that our first meetings be they AA or Oxford Group meetings were family affairs. If this is so, just where did the "closed" meeting come in and for what purpose?
appreciated. Jerry ______________________________ OPEN DISCUSSION MEETINGS From "abigapple2002" (abigapple2002 at yahoo.com)
not we should have some meetings which are "open discussion meetings."
how they came about. I thought you all would be a little more reliable in this case as to when the first open discussion meeting came about, where and possibly even why.
beginning to have a "thirst" for AA history. Thanks to all of you for being here and being willing to share what you've found. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3653. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Johnstone P.''s story, "You have to give it away..." From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/24/2006 4:13:00 PM
Atlanta.
____________________________ At 00:23 8/20/2006 , kilroy@ceoexpress.com wrote: Can someone tell me whatever happened to Johnstone P. from Ohio? His story appeared in the second edition of the Big Book and was missing thereafter.
they only use one of his four quotes, the one that states, "You have to give it away if you want to keep it." Kilroy W. 4021 Club Philadelphia PA ____________________________ Do you mean John P who wrote "The Professor and the Paradox"? He was from Atlanta. The four paradoxes are: We surrender to win. We give away to keep. We suffer to get well. We die to live. His bio is here: Yüklə 13,83 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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