This file contains all the messages in the Yahoo group currently located at the link below. This will allow you to read through the messages off-line
From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/depression-cause-cure/post?protectID=101233014037194190187038004248147063248048234051197
Yüklə 5,47 Mb.
|
731 From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/depression-cause-cure/post?protectID=101233014037194190187038004248147063248048234051197 Date: Tue Oct 3, 2000 4:43am Subject: anger diffused (for NJ) Welcome NJ! Your story sounds so much like mine. I've been redirecting for over 3 months now and you should read my first post to Ellie's list. It's #513 in the Archives which you can reach directly by clicking on http://www.egroups.com/messages/Depression-Anxiety I'm 52, exactly double your age, and I can relate to what you are going through. In the late 60s I attended the nation's oldest engineering college in upstate NY (you know it) where I majored in physics. I remember feeling very depersonalized or dissociated when I was 23 and living back in NYC. But let me tell you what I think of such psychological terminology in terms of redirecting anger. "Depersonalization, derealization or dissociation" are all different abstract intellectual ways of describing the real toxins of repressed anger that are very diffused throughout the brain. In other words, they are not concentrated in one place. As such, it is more of a challenge to redirect anger that is so diffuse because it is hard to recognize that anger is motivating all these feelings of being "spaced out," of being so caught up in finding yourself only the "observer" of your actions, of feeling like you are a fraud and that everyone is going to find you out and well -- punish you. So deep down, I believe that the symptom of depersonalization is caused by a fear of being punished because you were punished in your past and being punished, of course, makes you angry. But from my own experience, I believe my punishment was not direct and physical. My parents did not hit me or terrify me. Quite the opposite. If anything, they were too nice, too permissive, and gave me too much freedom and independence at too early an age. All this sounds positive, but the problem is that I am describing emotional neglect, which is a far more insidious form of parental abuse because it denies itself as abuse. They were certainly oblivious to it as was I.
Well, they did spoil me. Why? Because my real needs weren't met, but I BELIEVED they were being met. And that's the insidious part because you are being emotionally lied to and deceived about your real abuse. Look at a different child who is the target of physical abuse and being yelled at all the time. That child will most likely not grow up and diffuse anger, i.e., "depersonalize;" he or she will more likely show other more concentrated physiological symptoms -- but the point I'm making is that someone suffering from overt abuse knows exactly how to redirect and does it with no problem at all, while victims of covert abuse -- i.e., abuse that carries with it "plausible deniability" from the abusers will tend to diffuse their anger beyond its recognition. Guys like you and me, (and I sense it's more a "guy thing" than a "girl thing"), who have been lied to emotionally, live like the people in George Orwell's novel _1984_. Remember how Newspeak would intone relentlessly "War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery.; Love is Hate." As a child, you can't handle these incredible contradictions, these totally mixed signals from your parents, so you diffuse your own righteous justifiable anger at them all through your brain to the point that when you become an adult, you no longer recognize the source of the anger which you have diffused or "compartmentalized" so well. I remember rationalizing for decades that the emotional neglect I suffered was something really helping me. I DIDN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE THAT I HAD SUFFERED ANY ABUSE!!! So then you can see how difficult it was for me to redirect anger against my mother because she was so "nice" to me. How could I get angry at a person who sacrificed so much of herself for me? Literally became a martyr for me. Who expected such great things from me as the "family hero?" Remember the opening title of Ellie's pamphlet CODEPENDENCY IS OUR PRIMARY ADDICTION. And no matter how nice codependency may feel, it is still a form of abuse, especially when a parent is codependent and forces the child to take on an adult role. My only way out of that dilemma was to "space out" or "depersonalize" so that I could fulfill the role of "family hero" (or "mascot") in my very codependent family. NJ, I can see that you have analyzed redirecting and have so many questions about whether you are doing it right, what you should feel, etc. Put all those aside because your good analytical skills are irrelevant here. In fact, they are part of the problem! If you redirect, then you are doing it right! Period. The solution is to redirect anything and everything that comes up which you feel as disturbing to you. Imagine yourself at a carnival shooting gallery. As soon as a duck pops up, you shoot it. If a goose pops up, you shoot it; if an elephant pops up, you shoot it with your redirecting gun. You see, it doesn't matter what the target looks like, just start shooting. Who is setting up these redirecting targets? Your past abusers, most notably in your case, it's your mother, so start with her. Get angry at her for the fact that you have to now spend so much time in this "redirecting gallery" because she expected so much from you. She laid a real guilt trip on you and set it up that you would learn to blame yourself for what she did to you. She gets off scott free -- until now. And remember, I'm sure your mother was a good and loving person. If not, you would probably not have achieved so much success as you have so far. She really took care of you, but she was codependent and that's her disease, so remind yourself that you are getting mad at her disease, not at her. Especially redirect feelings of your own guilt when you start feeling guilty that you are somehow hurting your mother by redirecting or being a bad, ungrateful son. Guilt is your justifiable anger turned inward. When you turn anger inward, you cannot help but identify your self, your persona with that guilt. But that is not you. You are something other than these feelings of guilt. That's the real lesson of what you know as "depersonalization." By identifying yourself with these bad feelings, you cut yourself off from the source of your real self. Those are your periodic detox crises Your brain is always trying to remind you that as long as you identify with these feelings, you will suffer them. Redirecting is a way TO STOP IDENTIFYING YOUR SELF WITH THE BAD FEELINGS!!! You get detached from your bad feelings instead of feeling detached from your real self all the time. However, as long as you remain caught up in the analytical thought structure of psychological terminology, no matter how accurate -- you will not recognize the anger as anger and will keep on identifying yourself with the bad emotions which you have analyzed and rationalized as "depersonalization" or "derealization" or "dissociation." You don't have to make your parents the only targets here. Also redirect your anger at the psychiatrists who abused you. There again, with your sharp analytical mind, you "bought into" their system of analytical diagnosis. Your anger got diffused into the conceptual framework of psychiatric diagnosis. Now get angry at them for imposing on you such terribly abstract and bureaucratic Latinized words such as "depersonalization, derealization," etc. -- all that jargon that is the expression of their toxic minds and their codependency, too. You now have the opportunity to become your own therapist and to charge yourself your own rates! That is the most liberating and revolutionary thing about Ellie's discovery of the "toxic mind theory." It's the ultimate self-help therapy and it's free!!! And you can do it anywhere, anytime, under any conditions. So keep on redirecting, NJ, and don't worry about doing it right for the simple reason that you can't do it wrong!! After all, it's your brain and only you can detoxify it, so Happy Redirecting, and let us know about your progress. Tom 732 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Oct 4, 2000 3:32am Subject: The Unity of Disease Ellie, I suffer from specifically ... the 'depersonalization' and have been applying the redirecting to it with some results. I also suggested ...that this could be a combination of a focus problem that could mean mild 'ADD' type of background along with a full set of issues to sort out by finding and redirecting anger. > > I wish I could say I was post-flood, I think my thing is to re-infect myself after some breakthroughs but not get to the flood, I have to get serious with this! Thanks for all your help past present and future, and I like your co-moderator's style too. I'm trying to do it, I have a second job at the moment where I am alone in a rehab house project and I can pound on things. NB You might enjoy 'The Unity of Disease' section in my scientific paper. The unity of disease A careful study of what are described as distinct pathologies will illustrate the unity of disease. When toxins accumulate in regions of the brain that control specific activities, the symptoms observed will be related to those activities, giving rise to supposedly distinct disorders. Alzheimer's patients may have been forced to suppress emotions related to the learning process. Parkinson's patients often have mask-like faces and may not have released emotions though facial expression. Patients with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease usually have symptoms of other psychiatric disorders. Patients often have multiple diagnoses or are re-diagnosed many times throughout life. No disease possesses its own special symptoms, but in their not so logical systems, scientists classify and arrange symptoms as if they belonged to distinct syndromes. They begin to regard subjective taxonomic orders as objective realities of nature and, for example, classify symptoms in one part of the body as a certain disease separate from symptoms arising in another part of the body. But inflammation of the brain and inflammation of the stomach are the same disease. "The brain can't vomit and the stomach can't become insane" (6). The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (32), which undergoes constant revision, lists hundreds of mental disorders, each characterized by a group of symptoms. If the boundaries are unclear, a second or third diagnosis is superimposed upon the first. Psychiatrist Judith Herman writes: The mental health system is filled with survivors of prolonged, repeated childhood trauma. This is true even though most people who have been abused in childhood never come to psychiatric attention. To the extent that these people recover, they do so on their own. While only a small minority of survivors, usually those with the most severe abuse histories, eventually become psychiatric patients, many or even most psychiatric patients are survivors of child abuse. The data on this point are beyond contention... Survivors of childhood abuse who become patients appear with a bewildering array of symptoms....Perhaps the most impressive finding is the sheer length of the list of symptoms correlated with a history of childhood abuse (33). Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety
>
> I joined the list last week, I am finally making the effort to introduce myself. > I have been searching for answers for many years. This seems to be the first one that has made sense to me, and actually, in the few days that I have been participating, I think is actually showing some results. I (probably like many others) seem to be having the hardest time allowing myself to express the anger. I have been in deep depression for weeks, one of many depression periods in my lifetime. This one seemed particularly scary to me. > My confusion became so apparent, that I almost became disorientated. The fear was so great that I myself almost called someone to put me in a mental hospital. My fear wouldn't let me sleep at night, I tried, but seemed only to be able to fall asleep when the sun came up. Catching naps during the day and not sleeping at night, has brought me to exhaustion. > The thing that seems so different now, and has been going on for awhile now, it what “NJ” described in the post Depression. That feeling of being depersonalized. I have called it being outside of myself. Or being disconnected. > As I said the biggest problem I am having is allowing myself to express my anger....I tend to soften the blow. Or wait until what I am doing is done. I tend to do a lot of working it out in my head. Instead of just going to the bedroom and beating on the bed, I think maybe it is because of the suppressed emotions for so long. The times that I have forgotten the job done. I found myself in tears, mumbling. But with great relief. In just the last few days, between the periods of anxiety. I have found my mind to be clearer, to be able to stop when the anxiety starts and ask myself...where did this come from? That is much more than I could do just a few days ago. My childhood was what looked very normal, I think that was the whole thing, “looked like”. If anything was amiss, it was to be hidden. My mother wanted everything that was included in her life to be perfect. Including her children. > The oldest, my brother (to whom has estranged himself from me most all of his life), seemed to be able to fit that bill. (A very successful business man, who was able to retire very comfortable, and travels the world now.) > But I on the other hand did not, so through out my life, I have been let know how I haven't measured up. I think I find myself failing just to rebel against her system! I have never been told that, I am loved by her, and touching was something that just wasn't done. To this day if you hug her, she will just stiffen out. >
> I had to be very careful not to embarrass her. I remember one time I fell on the ice and cut my knee pretty bad. She absolutely couldn't stand the thought of me having a scar on my leg, and immediately suggested plastic surgery! > Through out my lifetime, I have had four children (with the physical scars), many surgeries, and now have Schleroderma, a disease that causes your entire body to become scarred all over. I sure wonder if part of this is part of my rebellion! Control was the word, controlling everything and everyone in her life. That control has now taken the form of my Father committing suicide twelve years ago. > My oldest daughter being completely under her control at the age of 27, and she has become bedridden because of depression, and physical symptoms. Which gives my mother full control of her daughter a 6 year old. > Of course the circle continues with my other children, in many other ways, because of my emotional disfunction (that I thought was fine) during the years I raised them. > The circle also continued with my two failed marriages. The loss of my thriving business that took 25 years to build, the loss of my home I built. The loss of all the money that I had saved all of my life. My life now is in an Income based apartment. Alone. I pretty much stay in. Only to go out to do necessary things, like grocery, and laundry, etc. I have not been able to work the last two years, partly because of health problems, and a lot due to emotional problems. Fears. > My eating habits are terrible, I crave carbohydrates. I am trying to cut out the caffeine, which I crave, I tend to eat just what the moment offers. At times that is nothing. My stomach has just turned inside out from medications, and worry, and carbs. I am not on any antidepressants or other types of mood medication now. The doctors tried them, but it just seems my system won't tolerate them. Except Zanax, which I took for about 5 years, they took me off of it and tried me on Prozac, the Prozac didn't seem to work for me, but I was also in withdrawal from Zanax, my blood pressure skyrocketed, it finally straightened up after about two weeks. Now I seem intolerant to much medicine at all. The good news is I am engaged. To a wonderful person that is willing to help me to grow, and heal through this terrible emotional pain that I have been living. That too is not without hesitation, and much work and time with our relationship, as now I find it hard to trust my on decision making abilities. I have been to many therapists. All of which ended with them seeming to think I was OK. Their answer was just to stop letting her do that to me! Now that I have discovered this program, it seems that analogy is insane! I know it will take time for all of this to be brought out of me, I am still not without a little confusion to the structure of the program, but I am sure that as I continue to pursue it that it will all come into form. Just wondering if I am doing it right. > God bless....DC
Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 734 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Oct 4, 2000 4:07am Subject: RE: observations and success > Hi Ellie and Tom, > I have a couple of points to make and will start with success. During the three months I have been redirecting, many, many times I have thought that it was not working and that once again I would fail at 'fixing myself'. Whilst I don't feel 'fixed' (which, in my understanding, is not the purpose of redirecting) I feel a sense of hope like never before and it came just out of the blue one day. Every time I feel (unjustified) anger, helplessness, etc I redirect and I know this will strengthen me. I think the important point though is up until the day I really felt the effects of redirecting - I was worried it wasn't working. So I hope that NJ keeps it up. > > Observation: I have always hated popular songs with lyrics like - "I was nothing without you" or 'you are the reason I live' 'my heart would die without you' etc, etc. Some people specialize in such lyrics like Celine Dion (these are from her songs and from the first three I came across on the web!!!). I now know it was my struggling against co-dependence which led to this irritation which I have never been able to explain. I only hope that young girls soaking up these lyrics don't actually believe them otherwise we are in trouble! EJ Don't forget that your anger is never 'unjustified', maybe misdirected, but always justifiable. I identify with finding those songs irritating. I wouldn't worry about the young girls soaking them up though, they may have to form codependencies in order to set up a stage for redirecting. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety
> > -- Doc Childre Copyright 2000 HeartMath LLC from YM http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 736 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Oct 4, 2000 4:55am Subject: Day Dreaming > I have been depressed for about thirteen years. It started when I entered high school. I was pushed around alot bye the other students. I began day dreaming almost immediately. (I read the dreams and fantasies portion of the article) This caused my grades to go down drastically. It went undiagnosed for two years. I finally begged my parents to take me to one those hospitals that were advertising alot, saying they could help kids in trouble. Well they didn't even try. I went to a independent psychiatrist nest and received some help from haloperidol (halodol) I didn't graduate with a very high GPA, so I went to the local community college and made average grades in a journalism degree. I eventually lost my confidence and stopped going after the first week of my fourth semester. I couldn't tell my parents because of the guilt and the fact that I had wasted alot of money which they didn't have. I didn't know what to do until a nad came from a local technical college I saw that I could get a degree in 18 months and ignored the fact that it had been a joke to me before. I graduated with a 3.85 and went looking for a job. I this time I came out of my depression. The job search was immediately disappointing. reason 1: I couldn't remember a large portion of what I had learned. I was terrified of getting a job because I din't think I could do it, if I got it. Reason 2: Nobody seemed to take my education seriously. I wonder if it was my attitude that caused me not to get the jobs. Shortly afterward, I started feeling bad I felt that I was getting depressed again but I didn't tell anyone. I eventually received treatment from a psychiatrist in the form of shots of halodol. I attended a university next but received failing grade both semesters. I decided I would get a bookkeeping certification. I graduated a year later with an A GPA. I looked for a job and everybody wanted people with experience not entry level. I stopped looking a year later. I then took an aptitude test and found that I was suited for a job that was artistic and logical at the same time. I now attend a trade school studying Architectural Drafting. I have completed two semesters in the time of one and half and will complete the third in about another week I have an a GPA. I have tried to start some kind of hobby. I would very much like to a writer or a artist, but even though I want to I can't seem to. Instead, I spend the day daydreaming on my bed. I read some but not much. My psychologist says I'm putting to much pressure on my self concerning the reading. Is their any thing in this anger redirecting idea of yours that can help with that? Also, I have trouble with the redirecting, I start and then become to angry to write and then turn to day dreams. So that's my problem! If you make any specific suggestions into my participation into this anger redirecting therapy I would greatly appreciate it. EM Your story sounds so much like mine. I began daydreaming when I was around five and did this all through school and college. My daydreams were fantasies that were somewhat distorted reenactments of the childhood trauma. I could not actually remember the early trauma, which for me was being abandoned to my crib as a newborn, never picked up, and left to cry it out. So my fantasies were disguised reenactments of this for the unconscious purpose of setting a stage for me to redirect anger at my mother. For example, I day dreamed about being in straight jackets and locked in rooms in mental hospitals (this eventually came true) and in my day dreams I could fight my way out of restraint and get angry at being locked up, just like I should have been able to get angry at my mother for imprisoning me in my crib. Please read my long story on: http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/schiz.html My father was a very angry man and yelled at my mother and my brother, although never at me. But I always thought he was angry at me too. I was never allowed to have my anger at him. In my day dreams I might make up a story about a teacher I had a crush on--he was a substitute father figure--and I would pretend he was angry at me, but in the day dream I could get angry back. You might be able to recognize your daydreams as opportunities for you to redirect anger back to you parents even if you don't recall specific childhood trauma or abuse. You may have been attracted to students who pushed you around, students who represented your parents, who may have pushed you around too. Like you, I daydreamed so much my grades were on a B level when I know now I was much smarter. Keep reading the article and watch for the excitatory nervous symptoms and do the redirecting. If you start daydreaming try to do some more redirecting. These daydreams are healing opportunities. In time you will be able to concentrate and excel in learning. Your short term memory will be restored. My IQ went up about %10. Cathy, who was struggling with schoolwork, when she became post flood easily finished a master's degree, and the last I heard is doing her PhD. You can realize your dreams of becoming a writer or artist. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety Yüklə 5,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
|