This file contains all the messages in the Yahoo group currently located at the link below. This will allow you to read through the messages off-line
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512 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Jun 20, 2000 2:30am Subject: Re: Healing dreams Ellie, > About dreams, appropriate time for someone to ask, I just woke up with a dream, not sure about but know it is some release. Since I seem to find so much anger stimuli with my business and how my employees run it, I dreamt my husband and father in law were running the store while I was away, and I went in and it was a mess, nothing done like it was supposed to be, and I went to the front of the store, I have 8 rooms, and I let them both have it, I took some bottle of something and threw it against the wall and when it didn't break completely up, took it again, I threw it til it was disintegrated and the anger was gone at them. There were things all over the floor where customers would have had to step around and over, I am very particular about the store, it's appearance and atmosphere, I've been questioning my anger about it of late. I hope maybe in this dream I am somehow coming to grips with it somehow, even if the anger had to be released in the dream. I know I have had some anger at my father-in-law, he only saw the store last month for the first time in over a year, (our new location which is 4 times as large), and my husband was on the phone to him last night and last night, since I had the day off yesterday, I went to the store and it was not in the best shape, and I had to redirect my anger over it. Sally Yes, even when we are post flood our dreams make sure we continue to release our anger. I have a note pasted up on a peg board in my kitchen that says, "Let not the sun go down on your anger." But if it does my dreams will help me heal. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Jun 21, 2000 0:37am Subject: Abused Catholics > Dear Elnora, A woman Internet friend... told me about your website and I immediately latched on to your approach. I've got a long story, as I know everyone does, but for now, I'll just hit the highlights. > I was born and raised Irish Catholic... in 1948, the youngest of 6 children. I've struggled with repressed anger all my life, in my case, though, the "gentle giant" whose physical size would strike fear in smaller people, yet whose inner fear and cowering was more like a small crying, little girl. I'm 6'3" and weigh 265 now. > I'm 2 years post-divorce of 19 years, and living with S here. We are both trying to work out or mutual codependent struggles. > I discovered your work as the latest in an unfolding sequence of self-help therapy this year. From a bad experience with Zoloft in a depression study at Vanderbilt starting this past January 3, I started down the road to recovery from antidepressants, starting with CBT (Burns' "Feeling Good") then EMDR, and the EMDR therapist uses EFT techniques of tapping acupressure points for emotional recovery, which I find works rather well.(EFT of Gary Craig developed from TFT of Roger Callahan. EFT = Emotional Freedom Techniques; TFT = Thought Freedom Techniques) > I think your redirecting anger techniques provide the specific "talking back" to the cognitive disorders of negative thinking in CBT. > Anyway, I was especially pleased to read about you being at Bellevue on both sides of the fence as it were, patient and researcher. I had actually once committed myself to Bellevue for a few days in 1971 when I was in the throes of LSD & marijuana flashbacks and having been beaten up by a new roommate who turned out to be a heroin addict, though he was on methadone at the time. > I also experienced a brief but powerful time of primal therapy in NYC, enough to unleash the rage against my parents, but not enough to work it all out. My parents were never physically abusive, more the opposite, neglecting me emotionally and making me feel guilty because I was not beaten like so many of the other kids in my neighborhood > Anyway, I hope to find out specific ways I can deal with redirecting my anger, since I have a number of polar opposite issues from you, yet the terror and depression of inner events are the same. Sincerely, T I'm so glad you are here and can now 'talk back' to those voices from your past, including those Catholic priests and nuns, who no doubt taught you the 'mea culpa' nonsense. I watched the installation of Edward Eagen at St. Patricks Monday, and thought how sad they don't know the truth about how Jesus really healed us of our so-called sins, ie the unconscious misdirecting of justifiable anger. The delusion that they can swallow some wafer made of toxic processed junk food to relieve themselves of sin is sheer insanity, the result of toxic minds. I noticed how the higher up in authority the priests were in the procession the fatter they were. Poor guys, I wish they were here to recover from the food addiction and to learn that there is no such thing as sin. I don't know if 265lb at your height is overweight, but if so you can be sure your weight will be normal and stay that way when you are post flood. And the Pope could recover from his Parkinson's too. Wish he were here with us. Maybe we shared the same old iron bed at Bellevue. I'm happy to say thanks to the mayor of NYC, some homeless people at Bellevue may now be sitting on those beds reading the pamphlet. Ellie 514 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Jun 21, 2000 11:42pm Subject: Write letters and tear them up I was just wondering would it be constructive if I was to write a letter to all my abusers and the people that should have protected me then burn the papers. L. Yes, yes, and thank you for reminding me of this. It's a great way to release and redirect the anger. I would do a really long one for parents and get it all out. In fact I still use this technique. When someone abuses me or even says something that mildly annoys me, I don't always have my anger in the moment or find it appropriate to express it to them. Then I think that if they do it again, I might be prepared to respond by saying something like...'I'm uncomfortable with...' and I then jot down how to say this in case they do it again. Usually I end up tearing the note up, but it has helped me to release any anger I may have had. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Jun 21, 2000 10:30pm Subject: Substitue parents abandon us too Hope you keep reading the article and recognizing excitatory nervous symptoms as triggers for underlying anger that needs to be released and redirected to your parents and others who were 'substitute' parents as you grew up, your ex-girlfriend too? Ellie Yes, I definitely was angry with my ex-girlfriend because I felt she played a mother role and abandoned me, just as my mother did (in some deep, dark level of my brain) in 1993, when she died. It's not at all logical, but emotionally understandable. Losing S was almost was like losing my mother again, only this time the person was CHOOSING to leave me. B Rejection by substitute parents is a great opportunity to release and redirect anger. It's important to redirect the anger to our parents who were the original abandoners, and to the current person, in this cause your ex-girl friend whenever you feel the hurt and anger at this rejection. Ellie 516 From: Elnora Van Winkle > Date: Thu Jun 22, 2000 0:46am Subject: Re: Write letters and tear them up > Ellie, you know I had forgotten about the letter writing too. I have a spiral notebook I wrote for a week of long grueling pain, releasing, remembering all my mother did and said and writing it down and forgiving her, releasing her, was a long emotional week, I kept with it, didn't have a job then and just let it all out, that's when I became post flood, it sure was like a flood of emotions walled up ready to come out, and afterward I was a completely changed person, the one who was so quick to explode became someone who was affected by what others did nearly as intensely. Now with current things, I think I'll start the letter writing, I can express myself better with my fingers and thoughts than just thoughts in general. My problem is in past I've sent the letters and that voice comes back, you shouldn't have done that, now look what you've done. Sally The reason it's good to tear up letters to people in current situations and even to past abusers is because until post flood, ie when most of the anger about our parents is gone, our anger is usually very intense and a mix of anger at people in current relationships and at our early caretakers. For example, before I was post flood I wrote a scathing letter to my psychiatrist who had kept me on drugs non-stop for thirty years. My anger was justifiable and it was good I confronted him, but my anger was so intense it was mixed with anger at many other doctors who mistreated me and anger at my parents. It was out of proportion to the mistreatment by this particular doctor. So it might have been better for me to wait until I was post flood and then I could write him a confrontational letter that would have been more appropriate. I did contact him and apologize, not for the intent of my letter, but for the intensity of my anger. BUT I have never felt guilty about that. I have understood that any guilt I felt was just more anger I was turning inward. We are INNOCENT (in the definition of innocence as unawareness) of any misdirected anger because it is an unconscious release of justifiable anger. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Jun 23, 2000 7:29pm Subject: Email from My Daughter My teenage daughter, who doesn't live with me, just sent this email to me. I thought she did a very good job of it, and I told her so. I told her she needs to get it ALL OUT so that she doesn't become sick like I have been. M "FINE!!!! You don't seem to care about anything, but yourself. You are so selfish, sometimes. Why are you doing this to me? You ALWAYS do this. You get my hopes up about going to your house and then you screw it all up. Yesterday, I was CRYING, because of YOU!! You ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS do this to me!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can never depend on you to do anything, you are constantly disappointing me." THANK YOU, this is one of the most inspiring messages I have seen and a great testimonial to the work you are doing to free yourself and to give this gift of recovery to your daughter. No parent needs to be perfect, but to allow children to have their anger when we are not. I did not have children myself, and only can hope if I did, that I would have the courage you show in this process of recovery. Ellie 519 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Jun 23, 2000 7:50pm Subject: Codependencies >> ...he is forming a codependent relationship with you UNCONSCIOUSLY for the purpose of reenacting his childhood relationships. He consciously wants you to care for him but unconsciously he wants and needs to be rejected so that he can get his anger out at his parents. BUT he doesn't know this.>> Ellie > Wow! That is really scary, Ellie. The thought of being the "target" of a codependent relationship formed unconsciously for the purpose of reenacting childhood relationships. I mean, who *knows* what that childhood relationship might have been with his parents, and what I'd be in for, had I allowed something to come of our relationship....?! >
> He has a brother who got a vasectomy *without having any children*. What does that tell you about their childhood - pretty scary, huh. Do we all do this, Ellie? Are we *all* doomed to reenacting our dysfunctional childhoods in Codependent relationships? M. Yes, I think that's the pattern for all, ie to fall in love with a substitute parent. I was married to my second husband (the gambler and alcoholic) for 20 years...it was hell for both of us...and only now do I understand why. I think we are all meant to do this UNTIL we know the truth about why we are in these relationships, and then we can begin to heal. Until people 'hit a bottom' in these relationships they are usually not 'ready to hear.' But you obviously are and will not have to suffer in such relationships anymore. Ellie 520 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Jun 23, 2000 7:57pm Subject: Re: Write letters and tear them up > I have a sister that I haven't spoken to more than a dozen words in almost ten years - I have an unlisted phone number and I wont let her have it, so the only way that she can contact me is to email me. I find myself able to write her an email in response and then I hold it to send later in my out folder and then go and look at it after I have calmed down from whatever she pissed me off about and I usually end up editing it or deleting it all the way. S Thanks, good suggestion. Now that I'm post flood I'm able to send off an email right away because my anger is usually mild, and I can confront someone in a kind manner if appropriate. Ellie 521 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Jun 23, 2000 8:24pm Subject: Help wanted Does anyone on the list speak these languages. I'm trying to register my sites with these foreign language versions on search engines and could use some help. It's easy to do if you can read on the search engine sites where to add URLs. Arabic Bengali Chinese Czech French Hebrew Hungarian Italian Polish Portuguese Russian Serbo-Croatian Turkish Spanish Urdu Ellie 522 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Jun 24, 2000 8:45pm Subject: Falling in love I think that's the pattern for all codependent people, ie to fall in love with a substitute parent. Ellie > How can we see it coming from a long way off, Ellie? What are the warning signs? Are there any red lights that we can be looking for? I know I have huge rejection issues with both of my parents. It's almost as though we do it over and over until we "get it right." >
My last husband was an alcoholic (as were my parents) and I finally got the rejection part re-enacted *perfectly*. He moved me out of his house so that he could pick up women at the bar. However, instead of this making me better, I got worse and my bipolar disorder became so bad I had to go on Disability. Any hints on how to break the pattern, besides finally seeing the pattern? M You are HERE on this list and are no longer in denial. You are using the self-help measures to recover and will not need to re-enact the childhood trauma in current relationships, so you will not need to look for warning signs. Your attraction to people like this will soon end. Just keep releasing and redirecting anger toward your parents and your past relationships at the first signs of any excitatory symptoms. That your symptoms got worse was good, symptoms are healing. Now that you know this and can use the symptoms as triggers to redirect anger, you will heal, your symptoms will subside in time, and you will not be attracted to these people. There are many who still need to fall in love because they are in denial. Early man thought falling in love was a sign of insanity, (civilization has been a major factor in causing the minds of mankind to become toxic and sick), but don't forget that all symptoms of insanity are healing. So falling in love is a good way to re-enact the childhood relationships in order to heal from them, it's just that most people don't know this yet. Ellie 523 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jun 25, 2000 0:49am Subject: Re: Falling in love Re: > < > In our culture we tend to focus only on the supposed "wrongness" of the failed relationship, instead of recognizing its "rightness" for bringing to our consciousness those things which need healing. Tremendous healing can take place between a couple when both recognize the relationship as a vehicle or viewing screen for past traumas being brought to the surface in order to heal. This happens relationships not of a physically intimate nature, as well. Somewhere along the way, we have lost this knowledge (or did we ever have it?). > > Many years ago, I spent a far amount of time in a community largely composed of people of the Muslim faith. It was very natural for them to recognize these things in a relationship and in life. They dealt with them in stride, and were very grateful for them. When I heard these things, I felt like someone in the desert who had just been given a never-ending supply of clean water. > > As most people in our American culture do not automatically recognize this, it is important to share the premise and the vision. It's also a great way to weed out early, those who cannot or will not participate constructively in our healing of ourselves and each other. The issues come up regardless of the cooperation of ourselves and others. Doing it consciously with another is a beautiful experience that makes us look forward to the next surfacing reminder of that which requires healing. >From a holistic health practitioner I hope that fewer and fewer people will have to be weeded out. I'm pleased that the discovery of the toxic mind theory will help to reach both partners in relationships, and allow more couples to use the self-help measures so as to heal together rather than go their separate ways. Already there are some who have brought partners to this truth. Ellie 524 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jun 25, 2000 1:20am Subject: Off lithium and onto full recovery > Hello, Ellie, > I am 69 years old, intelligent creative and extremely sensitive. My parents had a history of bi-polar episodes and frequent hospitalization. I have had three major episodes and was hospitalized for eight months. This was the worst incident, a suicidal depression heightened by insomnia. > > Upon recovery, I was placed on Lithium for fifteen years. Half the messages from my brain never reached my body. I lived a stable but repressed existence. Cumulative physical side effects finally moved my doctor to allow a discontinuance of the Lithium with close monitoring by phone and email and frequent consolations in person. > > It has been six months since then. . During that time, I have experienced stability, great pleasure, increased awareness and a commitment to deal with relationships and emotions by taking responsibility for recognition and change when called for. I am not afraid to express anger, past and present despite possible consequences. and am working on doing it both assertively and spontaneously, depending on the situation. The results have been more than gratifying. > > I am fortunate in the fact that at this particular time of my life I am financially comfortable and not involved in any toxic relationships. Also I have not suffered any rehabilitating losses but I have had some major physical challenges since January 2000. > > A bout of pneumonia left my immune system in turmoil. Also, Lithium may have masked some emotions. I have developed major physical allergies which I am confronting head on by: > 1. Researching the problem > 2. Following an exclusion diet to isolate and identify toxic foods > 3. Replacing environmental irritants with friendly fibers > 4. Developing strategies to conserve energy while maintaining > connections to friends and family and pursuing satisfying interests and hobbies. > > I have positive energy to share with a group focused on depression and anxiety and in turn am anxious to learn from others. However, I have a fault, which sometimes irritates subscribers and moderators. I post often and use a creative, sometimes humorous posting style. (rather than always "to the point On Topic" approaches) I do respect the discretion of the moderator in conforming to a required posting mode for the group if so directed. > > I am "anxiously" looking forward to participation in the Depression-Anxiety Group and would be comfortable if you choose to share this introduction to the group. A new member. I'm delighted to find someone my age who is getting into the self-help measures. I would like to encourage you to keep studying the articles on my web sites. Please print out the pamphlet from the pdf file to refer to rather than to rely on the group or daily posts to help you with how to use the self-help and what to expect. Also please read the Archives. I say this because the group is not interactive, but a place for support. I'm happy to hear from all on the list in any form you wish, but I usually do edit and shorten the comments so as to keep the posts from being repetitive and also to cut out personal information to respect privacy. I hope you will not consider that I am censoring or do not appreciate the full posts. It's just that if they are very long people are going to push the delete button and NOT benefit from your sharing. "and am working on doing it both assertively and spontaneously, depending on the situation." The good news for you is that you won't have to work on this, or research why you have allergies, etc. it will all come naturally, better emotional and physical health if you are persistent about using the self-help measures as described. As they say in 12 step programs, "It works if you work it." I'm so glad you are here. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jun 25, 2000 8:54pm Subject: Re: Falling in love > I believe in salvage and reconciliation, but I also believe we relive components in failed relationships by sometimes selecting partners unconsciously to replay roles from flawed early parental scenarios. We seize the opportunity to resolve these past failures with new people and are frequently disappointed when there is no happy ending. C. Lets hope for happy endings in this group, where people are recovering from the need to form these codependent relationships by using the self-help measures to get the anger out and redirect it toward those early abusers. Ellie 527 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jun 25, 2000 9:15pm Subject: Compulsive thoughts and behavior BTW I think I'll use instead of a pseudonym or initial the initials GM (for Group Member) for all of your posts. I think this will better maintain privacy. > Ellie, > This is a repost from the Schizophrenia list. I don't quite understand what he is saying here, but it sounds like you would! > > >>>I imagine that repeated emotions, like behaviors of thought and action, establish expressways dedicated to that habituation for nerve impulses to travel. Inhibitions induced by an external chemistry act as speed bumps, delaying the cascading neurological responses that render experiential an apparent association of situational stimuli and one's reactions to them. Pharmacological aids only buy time for one to establish new habits to replace old. Their barriers become bypassed as the impetus that created the linkages relating an external stimulus and an internal event continues to manifest the initiating intent. A pill does not obviate the original need.<<<< GM > This is somewhat accurate, the speed bump might be compared to the accumulation of sedative toxins (drugs or endogenous endorphins and other substances) at receptors. Such accumulations would cause nerve impulses to be diverted and result in continued compulsive and irrational thought and behavior. What's nice about the self-help measures is that we don't have to "establish new habits to replace old" When compulsive thoughts and behavior haunt us we can recognize these as triggers to release and redirect anger toward past abusers. In time this will rid the receptors of the speed bumps and also eliminate compulsive thought and behavior. Please post my web sites and a note about the self-help measures on any lists you may be on. You could entitle it "Self help for rapid and permanent recovery from depression and emotional disorders without drugs" and add my web sites. Ellie
http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety Yüklə 5,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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