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609 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jul 16, 2000 7:44am Subject: Going off medication > Thanks, Ellie. I would never tell my doctor that you or anyone else suggested I go off it. I am the one who asked my doctor to put me on it to help my hypervigilance symptom. But I am finding that the redirecting work helps my hypervigilance symptom, specifically! So I might ask him for help in going off it. YM I am relieved to hear this and delighted to hear you are using the redirecting, which I know will allow you to be free of medication in time. I am not a doctor or therapist and cannot help anyone go off medication. Going off anti-anxiety medications suddenly can be dangerous. I've had a long history of withdrawals and seizures and even near death experiences. I do know that skipping one dose of a sedative and doing some redirecting will help speed recovery, and hopefully your doctor will be willing to help you withdraw on a safe schedule. Ellie The Biology of Emotions: http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety
> I've been so despondent lately I hardly have the energy to read to find anything interesting anymore, which is a big part of my life missing, because I used to love to read for new ideas. I think this recent abuse and rejection by the mentor has triggered a tidal wave of repressed sadness and anger in me. I know my parents were not able to deal with my anger because they hated it when I would cry, and once or twice when I did express my anger as an adolescent, it devastated my father and he would be silent for days. So I guess I learned to fear the power of my own anger. My husband and I used to argue alot, but now we hardly ever argue. I've gotten too good at glossing over my anger. But I am not angry at him so I can see what you say about redirecting anger as being true. But part of the problem is that my mother is currently one of my best friends and I've been crying on her shoulder a lot too, so that the idea of expressing anger at her seems out of place. But I think you must mean something else. that the anger should be expressed in private and not To the person. Is it possible to express anger at parents and still love them and want them around? Even though I'm so apathetic about Everything under the gross weight of this depression, I'll go to your web site again and find more to read. MV Hi, Yes, yes, you have the idea, it's not about directing anger in person at your parents, but doing it in private. Of course you loved your parents and they loved you too as best they could, and you are not getting angry at their soul when you do the redirecting in private, you are getting angry at their disease. The current rejection by your mentor has triggered the pain of the early rejection. Please keep studying the articles and try the self-help. Don't think about the good in your parents when you are doing it, you are getting angry at their sickness, not at them. Ellie The Biology of Emotions: http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety
> I have been noticing in these post-flood few months that I have been in frequent situations where I have gotten angry at people (usually strangers) and felt the desire to speak up to the person. This is not like me. Normally I would either seethe in private or even be unconscious that I was angry. I had been thinking that people are getting more and more discourteous or that God might be trying to say something in these situations but I suppose it could be that I am more aware. I sometimes don't know what to do or say and wonder if I should even bother but I sometimes feel its wrong not to speak up and let people know how their actions affect others. I know there will be some who don't care but at least I will quit feeling like a victim. There are times though when I feel guilty afterwards and wonder should I just overlook it, but the frequency of late makes me think that I'm being tested. There have been so many incidences in my life that I have kept silent about that I think its time I spoke up. If I can do it without going off or creating a scene I think its good. In some cases I have calmly decided to say something, even though my heart was pounding. Perhaps I will get better with practice. Writing this to you has already helped to clarify. EC Hi, this is truly wonderful to hear, and sounds like the new healthy you. It is the restoration of your God given fight or flight response. I don't believe God is testing you but God is your strength within. Any guilt afterwards might be a bit more anger turned inward ie from the past, and it would be good to redirect back to parents. There are new people on the list who need to do the redirecting first as you have done, so that they can then confront calmly and without fear. It is only now that I am over two years post flood that my heart no longer pounds to any extent when I need to confront. And maybe it always will pound a bit since it is the release of normal amounts of adrenaline as part of the fight or flight response. I have confronted the Pres. of the USA and Janet Reno on behalf of the prisoners, and feel I could do it face to face if given the opportunity. Ellie The Biology of Emotions: http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety
http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety
> I am starting some relaxation/regression with my therapist, I must be ready for it, as twice in two times I found tears and emotion upon visualizing myself as a child. Today in fact much more than last week. My therapist is also quite into meditation, I want to explore that but I also want to absolutely save a place for the redirecting. Do you think the two (deliberately engaging and promoting a 'calm,' and also using the panic and anxiety to access and redirect anger) are really totally incompatible? > > Maybe when I am not up for redirecting and sort of calm is the time to try to meditate, and if hopefully in an appropriate place, I am feeling anxious then it's time to turn on the 'hot' water and pound the bed. > > My story is beginning to fall in place as a classic tale of suppression, and it has played out all over my life I see, with relationships and all kinds of inner turmoil. In my case I have gotten along very functionally without any medications at all, yet endured decades of panic and anxiety attacks with mild to (thankfully) fleeting intense depressions. Lately it's felt like sink-or-swim regarding medication, a lot more mood swings and weird stuff going on, but I am especially heartened by something you consistently say: That when it is the worst is when the most healing can take place. So instead of meds I'm in fact going even more hard-core, I have given up my light use of marijuana which I see has helped anaesthetize me. I don't want to go back to it, but I might try some after a long time of knowing I am fundamentally better. I realize at that point I may not like it anymore! > > Along with knowing I have experienced a lot of joy and other positive emotions in my life, I have in so many ways, felt nothing. Especially nothing of the 'negative' emotion (healthily expressed anger and sorrow, when you know it's coming out and you know it's good for you) ones. So going back a number of years it has been my quest 'to feel,' as if a character from the Wizard of Oz, maybe like the tin woodsman. > I find your theory ties in with ideas of swallowing something bad. You swallow, you 'know' you must swallow and it (humiliation, abuse of all kinds) 'will disappear' but as you grow up and keep unconsciously swallowing you get a bellyful of old and semi-old emotion that doesn't look anymore like what went down. In my case it expresses itself as anxiety and panic symptoms. Redirecting (as well as the regression work) is what turns the confusing cues of 'something is wrong' into emotion that was abandoned long ago in fear and confusion. >
I'll close with a story: > When I was six or seven I was interviewed by some radio news show, along with a lot of other kids. The tape recorder people came to the house. The question was, 'do you believe in Santa Claus?' GET THIS > > I was petrified. I came up with the best answer I could, I wanted to answer with the right answer, it was a product of on one hand not wanting to incriminate myself as a non-believer, one of those 'bad' children who enjoyed telling how Santa didn't exist...that wouldn't do, what would my parents say? Oh! awful, can't say that...or one of the pollyanna believers as I in my kid mind saw them, somehow abjectly innocent and suckered in. It was tough. I said as I recall: > > Well, some do and some don't (I remember that line verbatim, what a SCREAM!) I don't know I haven't decided. Maybe it doesn't matter. (I think I said the last line but I'm not totally sure, I think so) > > Great BS! Also kind of crafty politically neutral at a young age. But there's a sad aspect to the funny story, being put on the spot like that, NB I don't think it's accidental that meditation is almost the same word as medication, but I certainly wouldn't beat yourself help if you go for it at this time. The craving for meditation, or medication or anything to calm yourself will slowly go away. Forcing yourself to stop thinking is a way to suppress the emotions that are trying to surface. There is a kind of meditation that is geared toward letting the emotions arise, but for me I spent years doing meditation to suppress my emotions and feel calm. I must admit even now when I can't sleep I'm likely to try it, but usually I end up getting up and enjoying some other pursuit. I know my body doesn't need to sleep at that time. Maybe your therapist can help you use the meditation along with regressing so that it allow you to release emotions, and now that you know the need to redirect when the anxiety surfaces you can redirect. Give em hell about putting you on the spot with Santa Claus, give all those past abusers hell. I was told by a kindergarten teacher not to sing at a Christmas concert, my voice wasn't too pretty. All through life I sang in choirs, and in a chant group was told I had an exceptionally pure voice asked to sing solo, ie cantor. I had stage fright, UNTIL I redirected to that teacher. Then I enjoyed singing as cantor. BTW have your read Alice Miller on Santa Cluas...what a monster creation by parents to shut us up...Be good or else.... give em hell. Ellie
http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety 614 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Jul 17, 2000 8:09pm Subject: Teen age rebellion isn't enough > Ellie, > It is a known psychological fact that as children, we see our parents as all-knowing, all-powerful, and infallible because our survival depends upon it. Then when we reach adolescence, our view of them changes and we begin to rebel. I rebelled intensely as a teenager, and continued to rebel - as a internalized act - for the next several decades. > > When I do my re-directing, I find that I'm saying to my parents, "You must have thought I was so stupid!!!" because they didn't think their adultery would harm me or even that I knew about it. This feels just like the kind of thing I should have figured out as a teenager. > > Why would not our natural rebellion period have already purged the disappointment and anger we have at finding out that our parents are not perfect and infallible? (You'd also think that several decades of extending the acting out/rebellion, as in my case, would have been enough so that I still didn't need to do this work). Why wasn't it enough? "YM" The toxicosis starts early and continues each time we suppress the anger throughout our lives. The body is constantly trying to release the justifiable anger, and the natural rebellion of teenagers is a part of this attempt by the body to detoxify. And the direct rebellion against parents was no doubt more healing than misdirecting toward others or inward. But society in general will crush this rebellion, we are taught as teenagers to stuff it again... turn it inward. And it is usually at that time that we start stuffing down our anger with alcohol, drugs, or more food, or compulsive learning, or overwork in careers, or falling in love, you name it. But sooner or later the natural detox process will overpower these drugs, and symptoms will appear and get worse. Ellie The Biology of Emotions: http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety
> I have an appointment to see a therapist next week who specializes in Adult Children of Alcoholics, and Codependency issues. I am sending her all of your articles first. > > I have no idea how she works with patients or what to expect. What if her modality of choice is to "re-experience" trauma? (You say there is no need to re-experience it). If she agrees with your articles, then what sort of work can we do in her office that will help me? Should I go in there basically just to talk and cry about all the anger at my parents for the things that happened in my childhood? "YM" Re-experiencing the trauma is fine as long as it brings you quickly to redirecting. It is what I did at the Caron weeklong codependency workshop and where I learned to redirect. We set up little scenes eg others in the group pretended they were my parents and stood with their back to me, while I pretended I was in the crib crying for them. Then the therapist gave me a bataka and said bang on the pillow and get your anger out at your parents. This releases toxins in neural pathways where memories of early abusers are stored. An ACA therapist may or may not know the importance of consciously thinking about abusers while releasing the emotions. Why I say it is not necessary to re-experience the childhood trauma using the self-help measures is because just consciously thinking of past abusers releases toxins in neural pathways where memories or early abusers are stored. Re-experiencing a trauma in the above example and immediately redirecting to the abusers also does this. These are the pathways most in need of being cleared. The most toxic pathways that need to be cleared are the ones that store memories of early abusers, not necessarily the pathways where all the details of the early trauma are stored. In regressive therapies, like in primal therapy, sometimes one re-experiences all the pain of the early trauma, because they are not redirecting during the regression. This is more emotionally painful and less healing. People who tried to self-primal and didn't redirect have become psychotic. It's a little hard to explain, but I think if you tell your therapist you want to redirect during any release of emotion it will make the therapy more healing. Ellie
http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety 616 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:13pm Subject: Re: self-abuse, Catholic style Prior to my discovery of your redirecting techniques (almost a full month now!) my partner and I were discussing me joining a "Sexaholics" group to do something about my "sexual addiction." >
> Sex was my "drug of choice" since puberty because I had been raised as a Roman Catholic in NYC and was instilled with layers of guilt about sex at every turn. As a child and even as a young man, I still bought into the guilt-tripping, especially about masturbation, which is known by its alias "self-abuse." >
But is it really self-abuse? And where do you draw the line between healthy and unhealthy sexual relationships? >
For example, two consenting partners can download pornography off the Internet and enjoy it together. Yet I find myself feeling guilty about downloading it alone because of the self-abuse conditioning I received from Holy Mother Church and her clergy representatives. >
Since I've been redirecting, my craving for sex has diminished greatly. I hardly ever think about it -- compared to my obsession with it before redirecting. Now it's no big deal; I'm gaining a proper balanced perspective on it. >
This morning, though, I got that old horny urge and went to the computer and downloaded the pics and gave it the "full monty." Afterwards, I redirected to my parents, especially my mother for making me feel guilty about sex in general and to God for making me feel guilty about masturbation in particular. >
Now I have a specific question for you, which I think many males would like to ask but may feel inhibited about. >
In the future, when I feel seized by this impulse for masturbation, should I treat it as an excitatory detox symptom (no pun intended, but it's more than a pun) or not? >
If it is an excitatory symptom which should trigger redirecting, at which stage is it best to redirect? >
> (1) At the beginning BEFORE I sit down at the computer? > (2) In the middle, when I'm really aroused, but can stop before orgasm? > (3) After all my sexual excitatory symptoms have subsided? >
> I think I'm really asking: what is the difference biochemically in the brain, between the excitatory symptoms of sexual arousal & release and the excitatory symptoms of a genuine detox crisis? The difference is that if the craving for sex (or food or drugs or people or whatever) is to suppress anxiety, fear, and the underlying anger, ie the symptoms of a detox crisis, chemically you are trying increase endogenous sedative substances in the brain to avoid these feelings. So if you are feeling anxious and decide to go for the porno, you might want to do some redirecting. If you go for it and feel guilty afterward try some more redirecting and get mad at the Holy Mother Church and that God you were taught to think did not want you to enjoy this pleasurable gift. I identify with the compulsion for sex and my fantasies abounded in it. But more and more as I approached post flood, my interest also lessened. But there is nothing self abusive about masturbation, and not being in a relationship if I am aroused, I will go for it, and I might add with the dietary changes, the experience is much more satisfying. Ellie The Biology of Emotions: http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety
>
> As caring as she is I know she still has a judgmental streak that could erupt in some discussion about suppression. Of course, it's perfectly kosher to bemoan the abuse of my father, to have a pity-party all day long for both of us over him. And I should add, he was the primary perpetrator by far when it came to violence I experienced. But I feel that's not the point, it's that her 'pride' in her self-image of being the comforting end, the sane and stable parent, could get in the way of sharing what I'm doing. >
> I can well imagine questions like, 'I didn't lead you to suppress your emotions did I?' To which I would be obviously tempted to replay a script I know all too well, that quick! come up with the 'right' answer, your ass is on the line!' And feel the mechanics of suppression playing out in real-time, in 'grown-up' time. I'm just not up for it. My brother told her years ago when really pushed by her to answer- that no, he didn't remember being happy as a child. She threw a fit and said a lot of things about how hurtful and cruel he was. Well, my brother felt a need to be honest and he didn't care for dancing around things. At the same time the woman in the here and now is very close and trusting with me- I have and have had a very different relationship with her than my brother. But the 'trap' remains for me too. To be prompted to validate her as the 'together' parent, as the victim too, of my father-the-evil-one. >
> So I can imagine getting too deep in a discussion about redirecting with her, copping out of speaking truths to protect her, and afterward wailing on my pillow in the room where I stay in her house, whispering 'lies!' lies!' 'lies!' and dealing with another familiar childhood guilt feeling, that of having betrayed myself. >
> It is funny how we are all grown people mostly when we come to terms, if we are lucky to have a parent we love yet visualize in context of the disease they passed on, it can be tricky. So, good idea to steer carefully? After all, redirecting is not about direct person-confronting right? Isn't it about confronting a whole past of avoiding confrontation? If that's what I am getting and I am correct, it seems things don't necessarily get fixed in a blow-out with an 80 year old mom. Waddya think? NB What I think is Hooray for you and you've got it! Steer clear of it when you visit. It's not about confronting in person, especially not until you are post flood. I did confront my aunt about her emotional dependency on me, she was a mother substitute for me, but I did this only after having my anger at her in private, and then I did it because she expected me to fly out every few months to be a companion caretaker, which she does not need. She's in a fine residential setting with lots of other nieces and nephews who can visit. I needed to break the codependency we had, and I confronted her in a letter calmly, and we didn't speak for a while. Then I reached out to her by phone, and we have a pleasant phone friendship now. She's 98 this week, and she's much happier mentally than when I allowed her to be needy with me. It doesn't sound like you've allowed that emotional dependency if you only visit once a year. Some parents may ready to hear, and when people are post flood they can offer them the pamphlet. You will know it time. Ellie The Biology of Emotions: http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety Yüklə 5,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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