(hartsell at etex.net)
No CONFERENCE decision that I am aware of,
just as there was little conferring prior to
instigation of the suit.
sherry
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++++Message 3916. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Circle and Triangle lawsuit
From: ricktompkins . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/3/2006 10:15:00 PM
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In April 1993 the General Service Board of
Alcoholics Anonymous decided, from the "sense" of
the General Service Conference (the sense of the
Conference without an approval/disapproval vote),
that all AA trademarks and logos would be
discontinued.
Copyrights would remain in effect for the text
phrases "A.A., Alcoholics Anonymous, the AA
Grapevine, Inc., and Box 4-5-9."
The previous two years saw the discussion and
litigation threats brought to the conclusion
that the Circle and Triangle logo could not
be effectively protected and trademarked for
A.A. or the second "General Service Conference"
logo. There was also discussion and trepidation
that the coin minting companies that refrained
from using the logo, in those two years leading
up to the 1993 Conference, could counter-sue
AAWS, Inc. for loss-of-trade settlements when
AA's litigation (and threat of action) was
dropped. The counter-suits never happened.
The GSB released its decision immediately after
the 1993 Conference in a one-page announcement
that was communicated to all of AA. And of
course, to the public.
The 1993 Conference did approve an Advisory
Action for all 'future' AAWS literature since
4/93, adding the phrase : "This is AA General Service
Conference-approved literature."
An Ad Hoc committee, with Delegates and AA
Trustees, met on the pending litigation and AA's
use of the Circle and Triangle around November
1992 and it released its findings in January
'93 before the Conference.
I haven't read the Ad Hoc committee Report and
have since lost the April 1993 piece, but I made
copies of the announcement for the AA groups
I participated in at the time.
To me, what the Conference decided holds true
to the forward-looking perspective of almost
all its Advisory Actions. Then, and even today,
AA continues to be a self-correcting fellowship
when it appears necessary. Advisory Actions are
undertaken for the present and immediate future
of our Fellowship as solutions, rather than
reactions.
The voted solution to the logo trademark dilemma
added the 'Conference-approved' text.
Uncomplicated! Hope this answer helps dispel
any gathering myth that GSO (an AAWS, Inc.
entity) made the decision.
Rick T., Illinois
_________________________
On a side note about circles and triangles,
I read in the NY Times today that the U.S.
Government's 67-year-old Civil Defense logo
(used on survival rations and bomb shelter
entrances), showing the letters "CD" enclosed
in a circle and triangle, will be discontinued
as of January 1, 2007. The new logo has an
"E" for "Emergency" and no circle and
triangle...
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++++Message 3917. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Photo of Rowland Hazard
From: secondles . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/3/2006 4:31:00 PM
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Hi Tommy: As you know, I'm a Vermonter too. In
my small town of Arlington (southern part of the
state) folks just referred to the State Hospital
in Brattleboro as "He went to Brattleboro", etc.
There was nothing else in Brattleboro of note,
so people knew what was meant. It was a hospital
for all types of "committed" ailments... not
just alcoholism. It is on the other side of the
Green Mountains from Arlington.
It would be nice if you wrote a post regarding
the Annual meeting of History Lovers in Baton
Rouge. I think we all here on the web would
appreciate that.
Best regards,
Les Cole
Colorado Springs
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++++Message 3918. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: The Traditions and Religion
From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/3/2006 11:12:00 PM
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I would venture to say that people are not making
specific reference to a religion by saying they are
Catholic or Protestant or Pentacostal or Hasidic or
Conservative or Reform Jews. If you talk to a
practicing member of the Roman Catholic faith (who
swear that they are the one true church) they will
tell you that the Protestants are not doing it right.
The fundamentalists will tell you that theirs is the
true way and that if anyone who does not profess their
savior as Lord will go to hell.
Descendents of the Tribes of Israel are the same. An
Hasidic Jew will look at things differently than a
Reform Jew or Reconstructionist Jew. Even within the
Hasidic sects there are vast differences. Not all Jews
follow the 613 Laws and some will call G-d or God or
HaShem or whatever. Alex, do you also wear a "skull
cap and fringes" at all times or do you do that only
at meetings which what you wrote suggests?
While AA itself is not supposed to be allied with any
sect or denomination, individual members are not
prohibited from expressing their faith. Faith or a
belief in God is what made AA work for so many years.
Reliance on a Higher Power used to be a good thing in
AA.
When people talk about Jesus at meetings it does turn
some off but it doesn't violate any Tradition. It also
doesn't mean they are talking about any specific
religion. I would hate to censor anyone's faith or
belief just because someone might not like to hear it.
AA membership is not based upon conformity unless
they's changed that edict for the sake of clarity.
> From: "Alex H"
>
> From an historical perspective, I think most AA
> members would collapse into a religious coma if
> I began reading from "The Upper Room," "The Akron
> Guide to the Twelve Steps" or made suggestions
> for further reading from the "The Akron Manual."
>
> Regarding those with no religion, again
> historically speaking, the AA Big Book is rife
> with references to G-d and to the Bible. Hiding
> from it does nothing to assuage the suspicion
> of atheists that something religious might be
> going on.
>
> And again, historically speaking, AA meetings
> have usually been made up of folks with different
> religions, so when a Baptist, a Catholic and a
> Jew call out their respective religion, we know
> that all religions are welcome. On the other
> hand, throughout AA history we have had the
> stories of nominally religious alcoholics who
> had tried to solve their problem through their
> religion prior to AA and it failed them in some
> way. So mentioning a religion is misleading to
> the newcomer.
>
> So... I agree with you Natasha, that folks
> should not be calling out their religion, but
> if someone insists calling out that they are
> a Catholic or a Baptist, you can bet your bottom
> dollar that I will shout out good and loud that
> I am an Orthodox Jew. Why? Because if I let
> their statement stand, some Jewish newcomer
> might be sitting in the back and think this was
> a congregation of Christians. I shout out to
> make sure he will understand that all is well.
> I am the "bird in the coal mine."
>
> BTW, when I attend meetings, I wear a skull cap
> and fringes. I look like the guy from Fiddler on
> the Roof. If that's not shouting out my religion,
> I don't know what is. The same is true with
> Catholic priests who attend meetings in their
> clerical collars [as was done by Ralph Pfau,
> who wrote the fourteen Golden Books under the
> name of Father John Doe in the early AA period,
> during the years 1947 to 1964]. I would never
> deny them the opportunity to wear their collar
> and I would call them by their title certainly.
>
> Alex H.
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++++Message 3919. . . . . . . . . . . . Photo of Dr. Silkworth''s grave
From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/6/2006 2:09:00 PM
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Photo taken by Russ Stewart from New Jersey, of Dr.
Silkworth's grave, see http://hindsfoot.org/silky.html
Russ tells us how visited the cemetery in a note
dated December 6, 2006:
I was in Eatontown visiting one of my accounts
yesterday afternoon. The meeting went to about
4:00. Afterward, I headed over to the Glenwood
Cemetery in West Long Branch, New Jersey, to say
thanks to this guy. Although it looks like I
took the picture in the dark of night, there
was actually a glorious sunset happening during
my short visit.
What impresses me the most is the humility
demonstrated by this simple marker. His wife
Antoinette is buried right next to him. She
had passed the year earlier, 1950.
The other thing was trying to imagine how Bill
must have felt standing at this spot in 1951.
A year earlier, Dr. Bob had passed. Two of
Bill's greatest gifts where gone.
"Russ Stewart"
(rstewart at ndindustries.com)
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++++Message 3920. . . . . . . . . . . . Ceremony at Town''s Hospital, Noon ,
December 10th... (update)
From: Robt Woodson . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/4/2006 10:31:00 AM
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The address (which was omitted in
the first posting)...
The Charles B. Towns Hospital
293 Central Park West
New York, NY
Time and Date (corrected)...
11:59 a.m., or, one minute before Noon on
December 10th.
The Event...
A Candle will be lit in the window of the former
Town's Hospital, outside two lights will be lit
symbolizing Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob...from these
two lights, those of us who have gathered will
light our own, and hopefully return to our lives,
to our homes, and to our groups, with some part
of this light remaining in each of us that we
might each share a bit of what we have recieved.
Town's Hospital is where Bill had his profound
Spiritual experience...that's where his sobriety
began, and, that's where we'll be. I Hope, once
more, that we might see some of you there, or
that you might steer someone our way...the idea,
begun by my friends from Mexico City, is simply
to initiate some kind of annual remembrance of
this moment in our history.
Again with thanks,
Woody in Akron
A vision of a fellowship yet to come (BB p. 14)...
"While I lay in the hospital the thought came
that there were thousands of hopeless alcoholics
who might be glad to have what had been so freely
given me. Perhaps I could help some of them.
They in turn might work with others."
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++++Message 3921. . . . . . . . . . . . Copies of early issues of The Upper
room
From: Jeff Clymer . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/5/2006 6:34:00 PM
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I have looked for copies of "The Upper Room" for
a long time. Does any one have an idea where
I might find copies from that time period?
Thanks, Jeff
- - -
NOTE FROM THE MODERATOR:
The Upper Room is still published in Nashville,
Tennessee. AA members find the Upper Room
Chapel there a deeply moving place to visit,
almost as moving as Dr. Bob's house. See photo
at http://hindsfoot.org/uprm1.html
The problem is finding issues from the second
half of the 1930's, when it was a major influence
on many of the ideas found in the Big Book.
(The synergistic balance between grace and human
responsibility, the emphasis on the religion of
the heart, the insistence that "faith without
works is dead," the atmosphere of tolerance for
all other religions, the belief that conversion
is only the first step in a life which must be
devoted methodically to continual spiritual
growth in a carefully organized spiritual program,
and so on. See http://hindsfoot.org/protlib.html )
Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)
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++++Message 3922. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Tommy H. on Big Book changes
("at" vs. "for")
From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/3/2006 10:43:00 PM
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Just to throw my 2 cents into the mix....
If one looks at the visual meaning and intent of
"PRECISELY HOW WE HAVE RECOVERED" in bold capitalized
letters in the Foreword to the First edition it is
very different than the lower case italics of the same
phrase found in the Foreword to the First Edition in
later editions.
[This is found on page xiii in the fourth edition.]
Clarification in the vernacular of the Big Book
revisers means that what is written doesn't conform
to being all things to all people. It means that
it doesn't conform to not wanting to offend anyone
or scare anyone away. It means that watering down
to "clarify" will continue.
_______________________________
> From: Tom Hickcox
> (cometkazie1 at cox.net)
>
> There are a number of changes, but the editors
> tell us some changes are made "in the interest of
> clarity." They changed victory in the 3rd Step
> Prayer to transcendence, but that doesn't seem to
> me to add clarity.
>
> Tommy
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++++Message 3923. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "Qualification"
From: edgarc@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/6/2006 4:36:00 AM
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From John K. (Charlotte), Edgar C. (Sarasota,
Florida), and Jon N. (southern California).
- - -
From: "johnpublico"
(keller at ociofcharlotte.com)
Thank you all for your great feedback! What
a wonderful quilt of many colors is this thing
we call AA!
John K.
Charlotte
- - -
WEST COAST OF FLORIDA:
From: edgarc@aol.com (edgarc at aol.com)
Jim Blair said "in the province of Ontario,
Canada, the chairman at each meeting will
'qualify' himself as an alcoholic by telling
a bit of his story."
That's the way it's done on the West Coast
of Florida.
Edgar C., Sarasota, Florida
- - -
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA:
From: Jon Nagle
(jfanagle at yahoo.com)
Here in Southern California the term qualifying
as I have always known it comes into play in a
formal setting, e.g. a "speaker meeting" when
the speaker tells his/her story encompassing
what it was like (qualifying one's alcoholic
behavior), how it was, and then what it is like
now (sober life).
In a more general meeting it seems that we can
have a tendency for some of the newer members to
lapse into drunkalogues and "over-qualify"
if you will. As an earlier member wrote this form
of sharing can, if not guided by the leader of
a meeting, allow a newcomer to think that he/she
is in a group therapy meeting, rather than having
the emphasis put on recovery through the steps
and reliance on a higher power as the path to
recovery.
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++++Message 3924. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Tommy H. on "victory" vs.
"transcendence"
From: Chris H. . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/5/2006 6:33:00 PM
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My fourth edition of the Big Book says "victory."
Chris H.
- - -
FROM THE MODERATOR:
(Big Book p. 63) "Take away my difficulties,
that victory over them may bear witness to
those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and
Thy Way of Life."
(As Bill Sees It p. 210) "Take away my difficulties,
that my transcendence over them may bear witness to
those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and
Thy Way of Life."
(I'm quoting this from the 23rd printing of
As Bill Sees It, which came out in 1989, but
haven't compared it with a 1st printing.)
- - -
Message 3907 from: Tom Hickcox
(cometkazie1 at cox.net)
We had the "at" vs "for" discussion and I have
found where As Bill Sees It changed the wording
of "Deep down . . . . is a fundamental idea of God"
from p. 66.
As Bill Sees It has "idea of a God," which is a
lot different. It's like that in the first printing.
There are a number of changes, but the editors
tell us some changes are made "in the interest of
clarity." They changed victory in the 3rd Step
Prayer to transcendence, but that doesn't seem to
me to add clarity.
Tommy
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++++Message 3925. . . . . . . . . . . . The Little Red Book 17th printing
From: john . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/8/2006 5:32:00 PM
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Need date of the 17th printing of
The Little Red Book.
john wikelkius
nov85@graceba.net
(nov85 at graceba.net)
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++++Message 3926. . . . . . . . . . . . Use of "The Upper Room" in early AA
From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/8/2006 8:15:00 PM
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I have collected some passages talking about the
use of "The Upper Room" for morning prayer and
meditation in early AA, which I give below.
Ernie Kurtz is corresponding with the Upper Room
headquarters in Nashville about making either
a printed version or a searchable electronic
version of the 1935-1938 issues available for
AA historians.
They were interested, but wanted some good solid
documentation that this AA tradition (about
early AA people reading The Upper Room) could
be thoroughly corroborated
Are there members of the group who could give us
some other citations from written sources from
the period between 1935 and 1948 of AA people
using "The Upper Room"?
(I am using 1948 as the cut-off date, because
that is when AA member Richmond Walker published
Twenty-Four Hours a Day.)
Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)
- - -
From Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers, the official
A.A. biography of the cofounder of A.A., pages
71-72, 137-139. and 310-311:
"Sue [Dr. Bob's daughter] remembered the quiet
time in the mornings -- how they sat around reading
the Bible. Later, they also used The Upper Room,
a Methodist publication that provided a daily
inspirational message, interdenominational in its
approach. 'Then somebody said a prayer,' she
recalled. 'After that, we were supposed to say one
ourselves. Then we'd be quiet. Finally, everyone
would share what they got, or didn't get. This
lasted for at least a half hour and sometimes went
as long as an hour."'
"As T. Henry described it, a typical meeting in
1938-39 went like this .... 'Usually, the person
who led the Wednesday meeting took something from
The Upper Room [the Methodist periodical mentioned
earlier] or some other literature as a subject.
Sometimes, they selected a theme such as "My
Utmost Effort" or "My Highest Goal." There would
be a quiet time. then different people would
tell something out of their own experience.'"
An A.A. old timer named Dorothy S. M., talking
about the way Dr. Bob worked with newcomers,
mentioned that he would sometimes recommend that
they read Drummond's The Greatest Thing in the
World. "Those were the three main books at that
time: that, The Upper Room, and [Emmet Fox's]
Sermon on the Mount."
A Manual for Alcoholics Anonymous (from AA Group
No. 1, Akron, Ohio, 1940, Part VI):
"Now you are out of the hospital .... First
off, your day will have a new pattern. You will
open the day with a quiet period. This will be
explained by your sponsor. You will read the
Upper Room, or whatever you think best for
yourself."
Mitchell K., How It Worked: The Story of Clarence
H. Snyder and the Early Days of Alcoholics Anonymous
in Cleveland, Ohio, chapters 3.8 and 5.5.
Clarence Snyder told Mitchell that "new people
were told they had to read the Bible .... They
were instructed to do this on a daily basis.
Clarence said that newcomers were also told to
read The Upper Room daily and to read The Sermon
on the Mount by Emmett Fox."
"Clarence believed that in order for a prospective
member to get well, his entire family had to get
well also .... Family members were invited to
attend meetings, were given a copy of the book
Alcoholics Anonymous, and were told to read the
Upper Room."
From A.A. historian Dick B., whose books on A.A.
history include "The Akron Genesis of Alcoholics
Anonymous," "The Oxford Group and Alcoholics
Anonymous: A Design for Living That Works," and
"New Light on Alcoholism: God, Sam Shoemaker,
and A.A." In an article at
http://www.dickb.com/goodmorn.shtml, Dick says:
In the A.A. "spiritual recovery program which
produced such a high success rate in the 1930's
and early 1940's .... the growth part of the
program had a great deal to do with Quiet Time
-- a Quiet Time that included Bible study, prayer,
receiving revelation from God, and the use of
devotional books and periodicals such as The
Upper Room as ancillary study materials and as
a spur to spending substantial time with God
each morning."
From Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana), The St.
Louis Gambler and the Railroad Man: Lives and
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