From: mertonmm3 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/2/2006 7:28:00 AM
because the agreement was that only Dr. Bob would receive any proceeds
from the book. Dr. Bob did not want the royalty. Bill insisted that he
take it to avoid a potential claim by Hank. (Legally this last
legal training.) Shortly thereafter Bill asked to "borrow" Dr.
royalty if he didn't need it.
which establish context are not. I was fortunate enough to have read
era for a yet unpublished manuscript I've written.
My opinion, (emphasis on the last word), is that the issue is not that
Bill received a royalty, but that Hank did not. (and that Hank has a
does not).
was a salesman. You may recall the large decorative beer mugs often
vessel and a parrot for a handle. There were many other head/handle
caricatures that being one example. The letterhead lists "Henry
the failure to register the uncorporated buisness names of Henry G.
Parkhurst, Inc., Honor Dealers, Stainox Inc., Sharing Inc. or, until
1940, Works Publishing Company. Note that "Giffen" is Hank's
middle name.
In addition to Henry Giffen, Fine Porcelains there are two other
entity/people listed under Sales Management. These are, Stanley
Porcelains. These reflect possible other sales reps besides Clarence
of a resseller. I've been told by a reliable source that the actual
shown a photograph of it. Hank speaks of kilns in the correspondence.
The West Haven, Conn. address is a bit of an anomaly as Hank's return
Facility, West Orange, N.J. as his place of pickup.
I doubt anyone could argue that both Hank and Clarence had somewhat
abrasive personalities. This often makes their correspondence somewhat
humerous, (depending, of course, on the readers sense of humor).
Neither held much back. For example one letter begans:
DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THIS KIND OF CRAP FROM YOU OR ANYONE ELSE. This is
beers for a few weeks and that he found it negative and quit. This is
40's thru his death. Interviews years ago I had with his surviving
binges. He was reportedly abstinent for the entire period of his third
life". She died of a lung disease and this is where he obtained the
money for the $40,000 chicken coup I discussed earlier.
With respect to the implication that HAnk's drinking somehow voided
someone is drinking. Of course the situation which Bill found himself
stop. However the agreement that neither would take a royalty
deprieves Hank's living relatives of a rightful inheritence. There is
one year's royalty payout to others.
wrote:
>
> In 1947 Hank Parkhurst wrote a letter to Clarence Snyder regarding
their "porcelain moulding" business complaining that Clarence was
"messed up" with AA and other things and was not working the
porcelain
business.
>
> What was the porcelain moulding business and why was Hank relying so
heavily on Clarence to make the sales? The letter suggests that
Clarence might be the only salesman.
>
> There is another letter to Clarence in 1946 where Hank admits to
drinking beer for a couple of weeks so I assume he was still doing
this in 1947.
>
> God Bless,
>
> Pete K.
>
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++++Message 3023. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Memories of Ralph Pfau (Father
John Doe)
From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/3/2006 3:00:00 AM
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At 10:08 12/24/2005 , Glenn Chessnut wrote:
>Ralph's niece told me that he died because a doctor gave him an
>airsickness shot with a needle that had been improperly steriziled (that
>was back in the days when doctor's reused hypodermic needles over and
over
>again). Apparently the person on whom the doctor had used the needle the
>previous time had hepatitis. They rushed Ralph to the hospital in
>Owensboro, Kentucky, where one of the doctors was an AA member, and the
>only physician whom Ralph trusted by now.
I am old enough to have been given many shots with reused needles. It is
my recollection that normal autoclaving killed almost all of the bacteria
and viruses but higher temperatures were needed to kill certain ones like
some forms of hepatitis and most autoclaves did not do this, so standard
practice of the day did not eliminate this risk. My physician in the
period of the late 50s/early 60s had an autoclave that was capable of
achieving conditions that completely sterilized the needles.
My point is that Fr. Pfau was not infected due to neglect per se. My
understanding is that needles used on hepatitis patients were either not
used again or sterilized in autoclaves capable of destroying the hepatitis
vector.
Tommy in Baton Rouge
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3024. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: James Houck and AA in Towson
From: Rob White . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/6/2006 9:07:00 AM
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I have been reading these entires with some mild amusement.
Having lived in the Towson area for most of my life (age 54) and having been
a
grateful member of AA for over 25 years,
I know who this James H is but he is a non-entity to Baltimore or Towson AA.
He does not go to meetings and the old timers don't know him (except by the
odd
story about him).
I learned more about him from the Time Magazine article last year then
anything
else.
I say God Bless him- but don't look to him for anything other than an
eccentric
old fellow that has some interesting stories.
But he is no AA icon around here or anywhere else.
Rob W.
>>> glennccc@sbcglobal.net 1/3/2006 4:50 PM >>>
A report from JM to Dr. Ernest Kurtz (author of *Not-God: A History of
Alcoholics Anonymous*) on James Houck and the Thursday night AA meeting at
Towson United Methodist Church in Towson, Maryland, which was recently
passed on
to me.
James has been called upon frequently as an "expert witness" by
certain people
in AA, to talk about "how different" early AA was from modern AA.
In the 1930's James did not identify with the early AA people in the Oxford
Group. His name shows up on no early lists of people who were participating
in
their special meetings for alcoholics. So there is no sign that he had any
accurate inside information about how early AA actually worked with
alcoholics.
All he would have known was what was being said by the Oxford Group members
who
were hostile to the special mission to alcoholics, and were trying to push
the
early AA people out of the Oxford Group. We already knew that.
What JM's report does is to raise some interesting questions about James
H.'s
claims of being deeply involved with modern AA, and of being an expert
witness
on the way modern AA operates. James says that he has "spoken at
numerous AA
meetings and conferences," which means that Wally P. and others have
taken him
around to give talks to AA groups. But speaking in front of a large group of
people does not give anyone any inside information about how a modern AA
group
actually works with alcoholics.
James H. also says however that "I attended AA meetings at the Towson
Methodist church," which is one of his few claims to know anything
about how a
real AA meeting would operate in the modern period.
JM, before visiting the Towson AA group, had first read the material in the
Back to Basics website about James Houck and Wally P., and the way Wally has
been using a carefully structured questioning of Houck to back up his own
claims
about the history of early AA. See http://www.aabacktobasics.com/
In response to Wally's questioning in
http://www.aabacktobasics.org/James%20H-Videos-Documentary/questionsforjames
h.ht\
ml [1] James Houck said:
______________________________
"Much of the AA program came directly from the Oxford Group. The AA
program of
the 1940's was similar in many ways to the Oxford Group program of the
1930's.
AA has changed over the years -- today's program is very different from the
"original." For the past 20 years, I have been speaking at AA
meetings,
workshopps and conventions about the "original" program of
recovery. My Sobriety
date is 12/12/34. I am a recovered alcoholic. I got sober in the Oxford
Group as
did many other alcoholics including Bill W., Dr. Bob, Fitz M., Rowland
Hazard,
Victor Kitchen, Charles Clapp, Shep Cornell. I have worked with alcoholics
as
well as non-alcoholics for the past 70 years. I took my granddaughter to AA
meetings in the 1980's. By then AA had already changed. It wasn't anything
like
the original program. While I was able to drive, I attended AA meetings at
the
Towson Methodist church. There are 3-4 groups that meet there. Over the
years, I
have spoken at numerous AA meetings and conferences. Today, I carry the
message
primarily by telephone. I take people through the Steps, and I share
guidance
with them. From time to time, AA's visit me at the retirement home where I
am
living."
______________________________
When JM told Dr. Ernest Kurtz that he was visiting that part of Maryland, at
Ernie's suggestion he paid a visit to the AA group in Towson to see what
that AA
group was like, and to see how closely connected James H. actually was to
the AA
program there. Are the Towson AA people typical of modern AA people in the
United States? Was James H. actively involved in their activities, and did
he
know lots of ordinary everyday modern AA people there in Towson from going
to
regular meetings with them? Was James H.'s description of Towson AA
accurate?
What JM found was fairly troublesome, in terms of the claims that James H.
has
been making. Although James H. claims that he has attended numerous AA
meetings
at the Towson United Methodist Church, and is very familiar with the way
their
AA meetings function, JM could not find anybody at the AA meeting there who
even
knew who James was.
He found the Towson AA group to be a smoothly functioning AA group which was
doing a good job, and getting (and keeping) an awful lot of people sober. It
was most definitely NOT some group of ignorant, ineffectual, and demoralized
people who knew nothing about AA's Historic Heritage, and who were achieving
only a 1% to 3% success rate. Since this was James H.'s only claim to know
anything about modern AA practice, it seems very difficult to see where he
has
been getting all of his negative attacks on modern AA.
There may be explanations which could partially rehabilitate James H.'s
testimony, but it seems to me that what JM and Dr. Kurtz have discovered
needs
to be posted in the AAHistoryLovers. So I am simply going to give JM's
report
to Kurtz as he wrote it:
______________________________
Hi, Glenn!
Friends in AA recently sent me biographical information on one James Houck,
authored by Wally Paton on the Back To Basics web site, asking my opinion
about
his role in the development of AA out of the Oxford Group. In the past, I
have
read a lot of the history, but I am NOT an authentic or accredited
historian! I
rely on my old friend, Ernie Kurtz, for any needed expertise. Thus, I passed
the
item along to Ernie, asking for comment, especially on the inconsistency
between
the claim that Houck has never wanted to be considered an historic figure in
AA,
yet his long standing involvement in AA in Towson, MD, Methodist Church is
emphasized.
I am semi-retired, and am now near the end of a three week stay in Bethesda,
MD, spending the Holiday Season with our three children, all of whom live in
this area. Ernie and I decided I should drive up to a meeting of what Wally
presented as Houck's "home AA group", to size the old guy up in
person, or at
least learn a bit more first hand. On receiving my report, Ernie feels you
might
find this information of interest.
*********
Ernie!
I am reporting in as your cub reporter concerning my field trip to
"James
Houck's home AA group." I had hoped to report this material in a maiden
voyage
onto the AAHistoryLover list. Glenn Chesnut has provided information, and I
have
joined, but I haven't figured the interface out just yet. I might send the
information I'm sending you now, but maybe next week, if you think anyone
else
on the list might be interested. It's possible this is all just
nincompoopery,
and I should just drop this whole matter, instead of sustaining the
nonsense.
I attended the Towson United Methodist Church AA meeting on Thursday,
December
27, 2005, 8:30 PM. There were 39 in attendance, of which 8 identified
themselves
as "home group members." Most of the rest were young newcomers, as
the meeting
is a newcomers meeting, rotating weekly through discussion of the first
three
Steps. There were 10 minutes of traditional starter material, e.g. How It
Works,
Promises, Traditions, announcements. A young woman had been invited in to
give a
20 minute lead. One fresh newcomer, one person with a year of sobriety, and
one
17 year member talked for 10 minutes each, and that was it.
I sought out members with 4, 17, 28, and 35 years of sobriety for
conversation. None had ever heard of James Houck, Wally Paton, or the Back
to
Basics movement.
They all told me I must be looking for "_____," age 47, former
member until he
recently went back to drinking after 20 years in the group. He has
apparently
come back to AA elsewhere now, but no one knew for sure.
They all postulated that perhaps [the elderly gentleman whom I was asking
about] might be _____'s father or uncle or other relative.
The 35 year man offered to put me into contact with a 41 year group veteran
who can no longer make it to the meeting, but who "might know something
about
all this." I declined, as I needed to get back to Bethesda, and,
frankly, I saw
little utility to pursuing this matter any more.
My own personal conclusion is that Wally's very low success rate numbers
cited
for AA seem completely off base and at odds with my own extensive experience
in
traditional AA in Minnesota and Florida. AA is clearly alive and well, at
least
in my own environment ....
That a man named James Houck put the cork in the jug a day after Bill Wilson
did likewise, and that they both found spiritual guidance through the Oxford
Movement, is a minor curiosity.
**********
I hope you can find something of interest in this report. Thank you, again,
for steering me toward the historical sites you pointed out for me. And I
hope
you have had a pleasant and uplifting Christmas and New Year.
JM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
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++++Message 3025. . . . . . . . . . . . Alcohol left in food after cooking
From: JOHN e REID . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/3/2006 10:59:00 PM
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The Editorial Staff: The Grapevine, The Pathfinder, The Reviver, AA Around
Australia, NZ Mainstay, Bristol Fashion.
Some years ago the Grapevine published the results of a study on how much
alcohol is retained in food after cooking. As Russ J who was "AA Number
5" in
Australia used the say, "the half truths in AA".
Recently I heard some fairly newly sober saying to a gathering of fairly new
folk recently, "do not worry about how much alcohol is in the food, it
is ALL
cooked out!!!!"
For the benefit of us all, would you be so kind as to re-print the results
of
that previous study?
All the very best for 2006, Thanks and Kind Regards, John R
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3026. . . . . . . . . . . . Send individual comments directly to
the group member
From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/7/2006 5:34:00 PM
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To the members of the AAHistoryLovers:
The way the Pending Messages are displayed in the Yahoo Group system, there
is
no way I can forward a message to another member of the group simply by
pushing
a button.
I would have to cut the message out, and paste it into an email on my own
email system and then send that to the other group member.
So if you want to contact another group member in order to comment on that
person's posting, it would be greatly appreciated if you could look up the
other
person's email address (which is sometimes time consuming to look up, but is
what I would have to do) and send your message to that person directly.
I'm beginning to get overwhelmed with multitudes of messages sent in to the
Pending Messages board which are in fact messages to other individual group
members instead of messages for general posting. I know that in chat groups
there are a lot of back and forth messages like that, but please remember
that
one of the central guidelines of the AAHistoryLovers is that we do not want
to
function as a chat group.
Thanks much!
Glenn Chesnut (moderator)
South Bend, Indiana, USA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3027. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Data on 3 and 5 year survival
rates
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/3/2006 11:21:00 AM
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The chain of messages on the term "real alcoholic" seems to be
straying away from history. There are certain terms that are likely
best to avoid in this forum since they tend to lead far more to
endless un-retractable debate over semantics rather than clarity.
Among those tedious terms are "recovered vs recovering",
"spiritual vs
religious" and "real alcoholic vs problem drinker or vs
whatever."
Now having said that, let's try to provide a historical perspective
that culminated in the 12and12 (1953) and originated in the Big Book
(1935-1939). It is the matter of AA laying out the welcome mat for
those prospects who were not low bottom drunks (as were the very early
members).
In the 12and12 essay on Step One (page 23) it states:
"Alcoholics Anonymous," published when our membership was small,
dealt
with low-bottom cases only. Many less desperate alcoholics tried A.A.,
but did not succeed because they could not make the admission of
hopelessness.
It is a tremendous satisfaction to record that in the following years
this changed. Alcoholics who still had their health, their families,
their jobs, and even two cars in the garage, began to recognize their
alcoholism. As this trend grew, they were joined by young people who
were scarcely more than potential alcoholics. They were spared that
last ten or fifteen years of literal hell the rest of us had gone
through. Since Step One requires an admission that our lives have
become unmanageable, how could people such as these take this Step?
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