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Name: Paricia Fagan Country: USA Sent: 7.01 PM - 7/4 2001 Ramon's true personality becomes more apparent with each report. If he's not catered to and pampered he insults his hosts. Hosts, has he ever offered to help wash the dishes? I think not, since he is still in bed until 1pm unless he has a media interview. Please, keep Ramon in Europe
You've got a very good idea Name: Fiona (neglectful host NOT!) Country: Ireland Sent: 4.59 PM - 7/4 2001 Already there, told me I don't have a problem and said not to waste their time!! Seems I have too much energy from all the travelling with my job! Anyway, on to bigger and better things and people. Until we never meet again Fiona Name: toni Country: stray scot in ireland Sent: 2.17 PM - 7/4 2001 hey there, glad ramon reasserted his take on irish drinking habits. it was lovely to meet him even if he didn't want to go rockclimbing with me & on i'd like to add that when i arrived in Douglas a wee while ago, Niamh & Fiona were the first two people who "adopted" me & dragged me out to enjoy the sites of southern ireland (and i'm not particularly high profile in the media). I later met deirdre in the pub too & i'd say the only problem i had was the state of my ribs after them making me laugh all night. Being of a celtic nature myself, alcohol consumption was not a problem & i'm sure that if ramon was to stay here, with time he'd be able to keep up with the girlies. Next time we see you mate i expect you'll be drinking us under the table! It's just like anything in this world, if you want to get better, you just have to keep practising! cheers luv Toni Name: Pat Country: UK Sent: 8.48 AM - 7/4 2001 To Dave (Ireland) Fair point - I did think I was discussing wider issues on the strength of what Ramon experienced on a local level in the country. Enough is enough, though... Pat Name: Thom Country: Netherlands Sent: 8.46 AM - 7/4 2001 To all insulted people. 1) Ramon did apoligize. 2) It is very easy to misinterpret printed text, 'cause you don't see the expression of one's face, you cannot hear the subtleties in one's voice. Two things which help you in understanding what another means. And that's the problem with printed text: you can read a text in many different ways. Furthermore, English is not Ramon's native language so he does not know the nuances of the English language to fully express himself in a correct way. He was tired, wrote a little uncarefully about that & upset some people. After that he apologized for that, and since the Irish are great (Dutch & Irish football fans get along perfectly!) I know they can accept his apologies. So please, end this discussion and have fun. Cheers. Name: L.S.O.M. Country: Malaysia Sent: 8.29 AM - 7/4 2001 Ramon,
David Letterman - you are a celebrity yourself Be a model celebrity. Forget the negative comments. We are learning all the time. Welcome to Malaysia. Name: Melinda Country: USA Sent: 9.45 PM - 7/3 2001 Ramon,
Country: USA Sent: 7.36 PM - 7/3 2001 TO EVERYONE OUT THERE WHO HASN’T READ RAMON’S JUNE 1 REPORT. HE DID APOLOGIZE. Name: Pat Country: UK Sent: 7.33 PM - 7/3 2001 The real question I want Ramon to answer is... what does he think of a pint of Guinness and has he played the wild rover? Answers, please. Name: simone Country: usa Sent: 7.08 PM - 7/3 2001 Hey Ramon - I'm almost sorry that you have a messageboard to hear our feedback. I'd like to hear what you are experiencing on your travels without you feeling that you need to "edit" your thoughts in case you offend someone - or apologize for your feelings. Sometimes you have a bad day. People have to realize that that was how you felt that day and not take it so personally. My journals are filled with complaints. Write your truth! Don't let other people's comments enter your head. That's my two cents....thanks for taking us along this journey with you.
My gosh! What is wrong with everyone? A July 30 report has put you all into a fighting frenzy. Are all Irish people this hot-tempered? Or is it just the ones that are writing nasty messages here. See what alcohol can do to people’s brains? I found nothing offensive about Ramon’s report. And I read it twice. But I do find offensive what everyone (mostly Irish) are writing on this message board. To me it didn’t seem like Ramon was criticizing Ireland and all it’s people. He was just describing an uncomfortable predicament he found himself in one night. As for the person who said “if in Rome do as the Romans”? Nonsense! I wouldn’t participate in the yearly Bull Runs in Spain and get my ass sliced. I wouldn’t dive off a 5,000 foot clift in Hawaii either, just because everyone there does it? Travelers don’t have to do everything other people do just to be on good terms. And host shouldn’t expect for their guest to do so either. Do these gals represent Ireland entirely? I am seeing beautiful pictures of Ireland on Ramon’s report. Ireland is a very beautiful country. Don’t spoil the beauty of your country by bad mouthing everyone, including other guest on this message board. I think all those proud Patriotic Irish have said enough on here. It’s beginning to get a bit boring. So change the subject please. Name: Journo Jim Country: Dublin, Ireland Sent: 3.23 PM - 7/3 2001 Pat - nice to see you've rehabilitated your roots. G'wan yeh good t'ing. Ramon - what's the chance of seeing an occasional round-up of the best of your experiences? I appreciate that it's extra work, but you could give us a page a month, or even a page per country on what YOU found best about the place. People'd appreciate it a lot, I think. You'd be able to recommend the best of a country based on your experiences to the whole world. It'd be more real than a guidebook, that's for sure. so what do you say? Name: Pat Country: UK Sent: 3.07 PM - 7/3 2001 oh - Danny Boy.... Ramon - spoken like a true President...of the Globe?! I guess the Irish message, as put forward by famous Celtic band Oasis,is...You Got to Roll With It. A lot of people say that the Irish and the Italians are very similar: arguing one minute, best mates the next. Passionate about life. May you enjoy the rest of your stay in Ireland. It will get into you - it will change you. And if do manage to stay sober - well done! But always manage to keep smiling. May the road rise with you, Pat Name: Ramon Stoppelenburg Country: Currently in Ireland Sent: 2.23 PM - 7/3 2001 Hereby I will like to give a brief statement to explain a few things to my fans and critics: - Firstly, I am writing all my communications in English, which is not my native language and therefore open, on occasion, to miss-interpretation.
- Second of all, the spirit of this project is one of global participation on a goodwill basis and should never drift into areas of cultural or individual criticism. So far, as you would appreciate, this has been a huge learning experience as it is with all the media attention and I hope not to loose sight of the primary goal, to visit the world. I rely on you, my Internet audience, to keep me on track and correct me if I go wrong. Thank you for your support and I hope you’ll keep on following my journey around the planet. Ramon.
Country: Ireland Sent: 2.02 PM - 7/3 2001 I think your all making a huge deal about last Saturday night. We all know how much travelling zaps your energy and we've all been in the same situtation as Ramon at one time or another. Personally I would have looked after my guest, not by showing him a good time but by respecting his wishes and going home. Ramon you should slow down or you won't be able to carry on much longer, be firm with your hosts, they all want to show you a good time and may be inclined to forget that you've been travelling for a long time and would enjoy taking it easy for a while. May I also say that I've just returned from the UK where I noticed "binge drinking" seems to be a lot more popular than here in Ireland, so less of the stereotypes please. Good luck Ramon, I hope you get to enjoy Ireland for what it really is, I would recomend that you don't post you diary messages when hung over as there seems to be a lot of over sensitive people out there! Name: Dave Country: UK Sent: 1.57 PM - 7/3 2001 Linda and Fiona , I can only say , what an awful way to be treated .I have always been treated with the utmost respect when I have visited Ireland, and yes you have troubles , but it seems that despite these you were willing to go out of your way and LETHIMSTAYFORADAY? OR TWO! By the way - I am tee-total and this was never a problem to me! To you RAMON: perhaps you ought to learn to be a little humble, altho I think that all these messages will simply be wiped off ( as soon as he wakes up , that is!) I wonder how RAMON will take this criticism ?? However it's never too late to change!-and it did cross my mind that maybe he could have had a bit of sunstroke -being in the sun for three hours on the train?This mixed with alcohol maybe would not have helped- I dont know, but I think we should give him another chance to redeem himself! Name: Pat Country: UK Sent: 12.25 PM - 7/3 2001 Can we just agree what the real root of this "problem" was last Saturday? I'd say it was alcohol. Ramon was hungover and feeling tired and a bit moody (alcohol can make one depressed the next day). He knows now he shouldn't have drunk again. He has now decided to steer clear of the drink for the rest of stay. That's sensible, clever and wise. He's even apologised for ruffling a few feathers. What more can he do? What I don't like is what I'm now seeing - a general desire for him to give up and go home. I do kind of get the feeling that a lot of people would love to see Ramon fall flat on his face. That it would be a bit of a "craic". Yeah, right....get real. As Dublin Jim says - let's have a bit of forgiveness, a lot of forgetfulness and a whole load of positivity. Name: five of us Country: USA Sent: 12.10 PM - 7/3 2001 RAMON, we think, having looked at all the messages on the board and ALL your "REPORTS" that yes, you have indeed had a good idea, but we think that somewhere along the way you have have created a lot of heartache in your words, not good story line, eh? You got a lot of messages WRONG , then writing about them , and this must make the people feel really bad, when they have no need to!They have gone out of their way for you . You got mixed up in some of the places you were supposed to go , making that person feel as tho it were her fault!It was in fact yours!! now your in Ireland , and stirring up a real hornets nest ! Forcing people to come to your defence .Like Jim , below -its getting political. Basically we think perhaps we agree you SHOULD GO BACK HOME-NOW Name: Jim Country: Dublin, Ireland Sent: 12.09 PM - 7/3 2001 Yeah, the fasionistas are on the prowl in Dublin, that's for sure. But I make a point of never letting the muppets stop me from having a good time. That's why Ramon and I ended up in the Olympia theatre - it's oldskool, soulful, relaxed and honest like you say. There's still some of it about, but it's in as short supply in Ireland as it is anywhere else. I think it's time to hear the positives. I'm keen to know from Ramon where he's had the best fun, where was the most relaxing place, where the prettiest girls were, where did he get the best night's sleep, who was his most fascinating host, the most interesting place he visited, all of that. What about it, big fella? How about a little best of the month column, or are you saving all of those revelations up until the end of your big adventure? To Pat and everyone, peace and love to ya. Name: Pat Country: UK Sent: 11.57 AM - 7/3 2001 Jim - thanks for putting your point across so well. I must admit that my view of Ireland is coloured by my family background and the desire to escape too many alcohol-fuelled nights and fights, my Catholic upbringing, and the right to decide what you do with your body and with whom. Ireland is indeed changing, but I also fear it might be for the best. Dublin just seems to be on the roundabout that London was on in the mid-80s - chasing its' tail to try and open the most fashionable bar, restaurant, club, whatever. I personally don't think that is the road to go down either. I'm trying to find the Ireland I know is there - peaceful, serene, soulful, relaxed, open and honest. As you say at the end of your message - let's forget about the past. There's no better message than that. Peace, Pat. Name: Jim Country: Dublin, Ireland Sent: 11.36 AM - 7/3 2001 Pat, I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment of the Irish as less tolerant in the areas you mention. But abortion, racism and homosexuality were not at the core of Ramon's staurday night experience. My experience of Dublin is that homosexuality is very well tolerated, and my gay friends I think would agree. Ireland's epxerience of immigration is so new (we were still exporting people in their thousands until the late 1980s) that the jury is out on how successfully this country will be at transforming itself into a multicultural society. Certainly recent events in Oldham etc do not reveal Britain as the guiding lightr of tolerant nations. As for abortion, it remains the big radioactive topic in Ireland. A lot of people find the issue a moral problem, and one has to respect that. I was on the abortion boat that arrived from Holland recently and my experience was that the 'tolerant' campaigners attempting to force the issue here. The hard sell of Ireland of the hundred thousand welcomes I think is a Bord Failte one. Every country's tourist office promtes its nation abroad. If anything, the Irish try to live up to it. Again I agree with you about the influence of the Catholic church, which even you would have to admit has waned spectacularly in the last 15 years. but it won't disappear overnight, and my feeling, as someone who is not a member ofthe church, is that it might be sad for Ireland to go down the purely secular road of the UK. Beliefs foster community, which Britain lacks in my experience of living in Manchester, London and Glasgow (which incidentally are all fantastic towns, people - I'm not dissing them here, just drawing a distinction). I think that the Ireland you are describing - priest-ridden, insecure and intolerant is an Ireland that is at least 5 years out of date. One wonders if you get back over here much these days? You might just be surprised. And as for the central issue - Ramon was invited to stay in cork by the girls. On Saturday night there seems to have been a situation which led him to get upset. None of us were there, so we don't know exactly what happened, and neither Ramon's report nor the postings from the girls present make it any clearer, so it is impossible to jusge for sure where fault, if any, lies. By the sounds of it, the girls were very hospitable, and Ramon certainly acknowledges this elsewhere in his report and his posting the messageboard. Whatever really happened on Saturday is probably lost in the mists of time already, and best forgotten by the lot of us. Be good everyone... Name: Dave Country: Ireland Sent: 11.24 AM - 7/3 2001 Pat, when you lived in Ireland, exactly which rock did you live under? Name: Pat Country: UK Sent: 11.08 AM - 7/3 2001 Okay - thanks Jim and Peter for your comments. My point was as follows: As an Irishman living in the UK, I simply find the UK more tolerant. More tolerant of the choice to have an abortion. Towards homosexuality. Toward people with a different skin colour. Towards having the right to say "no" to an alcoholic drink and not been seen as "odd" or "strange". I was also questioning the whole heavy sell of Ireland being this country full of laughing, happy people. In my experience it can be, but I also find it very parochial, bigoted, and aggressive. Maybe it's the weather - a lot of time it's totally grey, dark and miserable. Maybe it's the over-bearing and hypocritical Catholic Church which is full of freaks who fiddle with kids - FACT. Maybe it's the troubled history - the Famine...will it ever be forgotten , I ask myself? Ireland can be a leading country in the 21st Century, but maybe it has to shed the shackles of its' past. But I go back to the fundamental point I made of this affair: True hospitality is making your guest feel totally at ease. I do feel the girls were excited by being with Ramonand just wanted to show him a good time. That is a lovely sentiment - but the offence taken when he chose to write his true feelings were embarrassing. They, and Ireland as a whole, should be big enough and confident enough to take a few knocks without taking offence at everything. Isn't that the root of a lot of Irelands' current problems (either in the family home, or on the International stage)? Name: Carol Country: UK Sent: 11.03 AM - 7/3 2001 Ramon, do you ever say sorry when YOU have done something wrong ??If not , now might be a good time to start, so as you can continue your journey !Having been to Ireland , I was shown the utmost respect and warm welcome so much so , that I just NEVER wanted to leave! I am in total agreement with jouralist Jim.I think you ought to slow down a bit and make your journey a quality time and not quantity! Still wish you all the best , and hope this makes a better person of you at end of it all .Read Rudyard Kipling's ( IF) Name: Peter J L Country: USA Sent: 10.50 AM - 7/3 2001 (Pat from UK )..I actually agree with you re: alcohol problems , but lets not leave this to Ireland , take a look at a lot of countries !! I personlly think , he had a little media attention and it went to his head , and if he cant say CIVIL things , constructive criticism , he should perhaps - make his way BACK TO THE NETHERLANDS, as I dont think anyone in USA will stand for his arrogance, so I think he really ought to go home and learn some manners man! I see he was RUDE to the people of South Africa BEFORE he started out!! I know a few people will be withdrawing their offer to you RAMON - I AM ONE OF THEM !I think I will offer someone who deserves to be offered a plce to stay !I shall email you to say forget it !! Name: Journalist Jim Country: Dublin, Ireland Sent: 10.41 AM - 7/3 2001 As the only other person to have spent a saturday night with Ramon in Ireland so far, I thought I'd intervene in an attempt to inject some sanity back into this discussion. Firstly, to Pat who keeps telling us he's Irish but lives in the UK and likes to abuse the whole country - no one said that Ramon was forcefed alcohol. As a journalist who specialises in health, I can confirm that the alcoholism, suicide, domestic assault and depression rates in the UK are across the board identical, if not slightly higher than in Ireland. And both countries are less affected by all those issues lower than certain parts of continental Europe. Keep your self-loathing sentiments to yourself. Secondly to the girls down in Cork - it must have been gutting to read the report as it was written. I can imagine that you felt that your hospitality was totally betrayed. Ramon is a nice guy, but I get the sense that there was more to Saturday night than has emerged in his report. I suppose you can write it off to experience. Be careful who you meet over the internet! To Ramon, this is the problem you have posed yourself as a journalist, doing this project. If you show the due thanks to people who house you and feed you and look after you, then perhaps the journalism will be a little banal. Of course your readers are delighted to see some negative reporting, but how much of that is respect for your honest opinion and how much is them baying for controversy and exciting writing? The other consideration is that if you are negative too often, people will stop inviting you. Who wants to be pilloried online? Anyway, best of luck and keep on trucking the lot of you. I'm outta here... Name: Pat Country: UK Sent: 10.24 AM - 7/3 2001 re: Ramon and his Saturday night What the Hell is going on? Leave Ramon alone.
Ramon, alcohol was not a huge aspect of Sat night, we had a three course meal, we were dancing and you had three pints of Budweiser and one Smineroff Ice - not exactly grounds for going all wobbly and off centre. Seems to me you got the heave ho on Friday night and couldn't handle the rejection. You were only supposed to spend one night, but you wanted to stay two, so that is why I agreed to be your host on Sat night, it was for my friend and not you. SO THE CONCEPT OF LET ME STAY FOR A NIGHT IS NOT REALLY WORKING! REACTION FROM RAMON: I did not ask to stay an extra day, it was offered me because of Sat-night's dog races. Yüklə 1,59 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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