This file contains all the messages in the Yahoo group currently located at the link below. This will allow you to read through the messages off-line

112

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sun Dec 26, 1999 7:52am

Subject: On the right track
Ellie

My educational background is limited to the point or a point that is limited in respect to the clinical understanding of this therapy. Intellectually it sounds right on to me. Emotionally it feels right as well. The effects of an extremely dysfunctional life (I hesitate to use that somewhat overly used and somewhat misinterpreted term dysfunctional) coupled with twenty years of therapy (which has been in my opinion equally as dysfunctional) leaves me in one hell of a mess. There have been other forms of therapy that have and still do sound as though they are good. Although I must admit that this one has a pulling effect on me for reasons I'm not sure of. I am historically short on follow through. I suspect that my fear of becoming "NORMAL" has a baring (STRONG baring) on this pattern of screwing up (sabotaging) my own recovery. All be it there are other factors that play a part in the struggle for recovery as well. Such as Bi Polar I mixed symptoms. Long standing PTSD symptoms, etc., etc.. Drug and alcohol abuse. The degree of trouble that this has caused is still untabulated. My somewhat recognizable public profile in conjunction with the fact that I have and am involved with the veterans community i.e.: VA all the service organizations such as the VFW so on and so forth, (public profile) makes all forms of therapy sabatogable from the outside as well. Extreme reasonable fear as well as extreme unreasonable fear run rampant in me at all times. Is fear the basis of anger?? Most definitely say I. Do I have a problem with insecurity on all levels imaginable?? I'm fucking Raging inside at all times. With over spills seeping out and hurting those around me and completely distorting my ability to be a responsible, functional, loving, helping, caring human being. I've only scratched the surface with this prelude above relative to explaining what is going on with me. I'm also screaming with indecision. I'm hurting others by being like this. I'm trapped. Catch 22. What do I do?? Redirect. Oh sure. Oh sure, I'll simply take an entire lifetime of extremely excessive amounts of repressed rage and I'll redirect it. Every thing I do is (it seems) an attempt to run away from, except from, divert from the rage. I hope you note the terminology I'm using. In particular the word RAGE. I feel its rage, because it seems that every thing has the ability to make me very angry. I have to go right now I'll try to get back to this later but try if you will to help me figure out where I'm going if you can with this limited information. I don't know what to do With Love From Fred

Dear Fred

Your fear of becoming normal may be a healthy thing. What you need to do now is NOT be normal, but go with the madness. Madness is the cure for madness, only anger needs to be redirected during the madness.

Yes, fear is a trigger for underlying anger that wants out and needs to be redirected. You are on the right track. But you don't have to release and redirect all this anger that is stored up in you from the past ALL AT ONCE. All you need to do is be on the alert for excitatory nervous symptoms that are triggers that this anger wants out. It is a PERIODIC detoxification process. It's kind of like the periodic withdrawal from alcohol, only what's getting detoxed are toxic neurochemicals that store repressed anger in your brain. And so much anger is stored up it is now rage as you say. So if you are misdirecting anger at someone else in a current situation, it is a mix of anger from the present and the past, and if you can recognize this, then go and bang on the bed and yell at your parents while picturing them. If you are not near a bed or in public, then mentally talk to your parents and get mad at them quietly in your head. You should then be able to calmly confront someone if this is appropriate. And everytime you have a symptom (please reread the article for symptoms) mentally redirect anger if you can't get to a bed. Please also read the Archives, and Testimonials for more tips.

Ellie
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
113

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sun Dec 26, 1999 8:01am

Subject: Caretaking
I am willing to try to sort this all out because my life is now slowly spiraling downhill and has for quite some time particularly with the caregiving role I have been providing to my mom since 1991, last six months acute and now she is in foster care, but it has taken its toll and I can't seem to get back on my feet.

Rose
Dear Rose,

I became a caretaker with my 96 year old aunt, who was sort of mother to me over the years. I went from NYC to Illinois like a dutiful daughter every couple of months, and helped her move into a retirement home. Even though it is a beautiful place and families are not encouraged to stay around and be caretakers, I continued to go out every couple of months and be with her. At one point when she was in the infirmary and had been taken off antidepressants (which they, thank God, put her back on, she needs them) she was crying and begging me on the phone to come out. I finally realized I was only enabling her, and thanks to my own recovery, I told her very firmly that she didn't need me and needed to rely on the people at her residence. I even explained codependency and told her she was using me and that I was hurt, even though she had given me some very lovely and expensive trips, I told her flatly she was buying me. She didn't speak to me for while, then I reached out to her by phone. And now she is leaning more on the people at her residence. I know that what I did was helpful for her. We are good friends and talk on the phone every week. She's of course still codependent and slips in an occasional remark about how my cousin is so wonderful and there for her, and visits her all the time. I just ignore it. I never go out there anymore and am at peace with my relationship with her.

Ellie
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
114

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sun Dec 26, 1999 8:21am

Subject: Compulsive thoughts
Elnora,

I did more of the measures throughout the day on sat, everything brought up tears. Now I've moved on to 'obsessing'. Can these measures work for this?

Louise
Dear Louise,

Yes, obsessing sounds like compulsive thinking, which is an excitatory symptom. You could try some redirecting. Be good to yourself, though, you will keep getting new opportunities to release and redirect anger. It's a periodic detox process that will take many months.

Ellie
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html

115

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Mon Dec 27, 1999 4:46am

Subject: Caretaking
Re: her mother

I am a Christian and God expects us to honor our parents and I love her.

Rosalee
Unfortunately we often put the fifth commandment as the first, and it is our parents who taught us to do this even when we were helpless infants and needed their care. As a newborn I was taught to be silent so as not to disturb my father. I was expected to take care of my parents. This was the cause of great suffering for me and it is why you are in emotional pain with relationships today. I hope that you can concentrate on using the self-help measures for your own recovery. I agree we need to take care of our parents, but I think as you recover you will have a somewhat different view of your relationship. Recovery involves having your anger at her, not in person, but in the self-therapy.

Ellie
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
116

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Mon Dec 27, 1999 5:09am

Subject: Rejection
Thanks so much Elnora for the explanation of what it is all about, i.e. the chemical imbalance. I am wondering if I could take some of your time with something . . . . . I am dealing right now with an issue that is very real hard to take. My dear friend of MANY years...I received a letter from her telling me I had never been a good friend and that she never wanted to hear from me again. I still cannot understand what I did that was so terrible.

Rosalee,

Dear Rosalee,

Rejection is very painful indeed, and you don't deserve it. Please reread the article. Here is the first paragraph to explain how we unconsciously choose as friends people who are like are parents and who will reject us as our parents did. These rejections are opportunities to recover.

"When you learn this simple biology the self-help measures that relieve depression and addictions will come naturally. All children are born with healthy anger, which is part of the fight or flight reaction. When parents mistreat or neglect us emotionally, even unintentionally, they usually cause us to suppress our justifiable anger. No parent needs to be perfect, but we must be allowed to be angry. The suppression of anger is more damaging than the trauma itself. Even the lullaby, 'Hush Li'lBaby Now Don't You Cry' serves the parent, not the child. But our parents probably had to suppress their anger as children, and this recovery is for them as well. We unconsciously form co-dependent relationships, which are re-enactments of childhood relationships, for the purpose of releasing repressed anger and grief. Many of us have sought partners, bosses, and friends who remind us of our parents and have been unhappy in these relationships."
As I was recovering, my best friend also rejected me. I was very hurt and didn't understand why either. It's not easy for me to say this, but rejection is a great trigger to do the self-help measures. Most of our friendships were codependencies, and codependencies are the basic addiction we have, and they can be even more cruel than the overlying addictions such as active alcoholism. People go to CODA and ACA for this, but the self-help measures will heal you also, and probably sooner, from this basic addiction of codependency. I was able to see when my friend rejected me that my hurt was a trigger for anger. I was angry at my friend, but it was so intense I realized it was mostly repressed anger that was about my parents, ie my mother, and I was able to use this as a trigger to get angry at my mother (not in person) but by using the self help measures. I hope this helps.

Ellie
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
117

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Mon Dec 27, 1999 5:48am

Subject: The Pamphlet
If anyone would like to print out the short version of the article as a pamphlet for yourself or to pass on to others, please reply to any of my posts. I can send it to you as a Word attachment, which can be printed out, first page 1 for one side of the pamphlet, and then page 2 for the other side. It can then be folded into a pamphlet. This is the way I have been sending it to prison officials for distribution to all prisoners. If you are interested in the list of countries that now have it, I keep adding to the list in the Testimonials.

Ellie
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
118

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Tue Dec 28, 1999 5:19am

Subject: Emotionally absent father
I have given this a lot of thought and realize that the basis mainly for my anger is MY FATHER. During the holidays I received a post from my cousin who went into great detail telling me what a wonderful, caring person he was. He was always there for her when she needed encouragement etc. She could not say enough. For the family that he had, his wife and two daughters he was there but there only when it came to his job. He told my mother just months into their marriage that the Navy would always be number 1. (I was married briefly to a fellow naval officer and when I saw it headed in the same direction and tried to stop it and could not get his attention I left him. I guess you are right about who we pick for partners, friends etc.) My father was a caring and compassionate person when it came to his colleagues, and the many people he ministered to. but it did not seem to matter because he was NEVER AVAILABLE. I finally got tired of hearing about how wonderful he was from my cousin and shared some of the stuff he did when I was growing up and as an adult. I believe the correct term is PASSIVE ABUSE? So, Elnora I guess the few memories I do have are really trauma filled aren't they. I grew up trying to please my father but realized quite early that I never could quit measure up. When we would complain about the lack of time spent he would point out that he did not physically abuse us, starve us, deny us shelter or clothing did he? And my answer, always under my breath was, "No, but you never give anything of yourself either!" When I hear from my cousins in such glowing terms it hurts deeply because he was never there for me.

Rosalee
Dear Rosalee,

I shed a tear reading this...how you must have hurt as a child and still do. My father also was absent emotionally. I was his favorite and never physically abused, but I listened to him rage at others and always thought I would be next. He couldn't love me. I hope you can turn that hurt into anger, and get it out using the self-help measures.

Ellie
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
119

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Tue Dec 28, 1999 5:27am

Subject: A post flood friend
Here's a note from Frank, whose brief story is in the Testimonials. He began using the self-help measures I believe in March of 1999.

Thank you so much for helping me out with my depression. 1998 was the worst year of my life. 1999 has been the best of my life, so far. And I am confident more good years are to come.

Frank

Dear Frank,

Thanks for checking in--without stories like yours this way of healing would reach no one.

Ellie
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
120

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Wed Dec 29, 1999 6:40am

Subject: Meditation
I was telling Shirely that the toxic mind theory came to me during a meditation in 1995, and I then spent two years in library research where I found no evidence that did not support it. And I mentioned that I used to use meditation as a drug, but that slowly it has become a natural outcome of a peaceful mind and a place of inspiration. It's interesting that the people in China, where there is a one child policy and children may be less abused, they seem to be emotionally healthier than some other nations. They were quick to have their anger when their Embassy in Belgrade was bombed. They also have recently clamped down on religious meditative groups. I doubt if they understand why, but I suspect they intuitively know that meditation can be medication.
I may take the advice below from MIT scientists and leave my computer off during Y2K. I hope too there are no acts of terrorism. It is hard knowing the truth about why terrorists need to misdirect anger, and I hope there are no incidents in places where people congregate. If they are places where there are authority figures, they are open territory for people who need to get anger out.

Hi! I believe all the great innovations, inventions, ideas and revolutions come out of the deep silence! I have no doubt you received your theories in this way, because after only reading a small portion of your paper on the website (the first time I discovered it) I knew you had tapped into something profound, authentic, and original. I, too, used meditation as a "drug" for years. I didn't recognize this exactly until I no longer needed a "drug" (very recently), but now I can see how I was always using meditation to try to keep my moods from sliding into sadness or depression. Of course I had my periods of wondrous, beautiful meditation too, but not as often as I would have liked. Now that I'm not struggling so much with myself, and meditation is not a desperate affair, I am learning to experience it in a new way

that is much more rewarding.
Per the suggestion of M.I.T. scientists, I'll probably turn my computer off from early the evening of the 30th to early a.m. Jan. 2nd.

Shirley

Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html

121

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Thu Dec 30, 1999 4:23am

Subject: The lesser problem often appears first
Dear Ellie

I thought I'd mention something that has been true for me, and something that might help others on the list. When I was in therapy, I mentioned to my therapist how much I hated my father. My therapist reminded me that the lesser problem often becomes apparent first, and wondered how my relationship was with my mother.

It was only later that I realized how much pain my mother has caused me by neglecting me in my early childhood, and how my father in fact was the lesser cause of my problems (although in no way innocent). I mention this because for so long I did not see the anger I had in me against my mother, and it took me a long while to find it and release it.

Frank
Dear Frank,

Thank you for this insight, and it was true for me too. My father was a raving alcoholic, filled with rage, and verbally abusive to all. My mother was the long-suffering saint, so to speak. But in truth she is the one who left me abandoned and crying in my crib from birth. I know she did this to deal with three small children and a difficult husband, but it was this abandonment that caused my suffering more that my father's openly abusive ways.

Ellie
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
122

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Thu Dec 30, 1999 4:26am

Subject: Relationships
Dear Frank,

How is your relationship with your girlfriend going. I was not in a relationship when I recovered, so I have no experience to offer others who are in relationships.

Ellie
Dear Ellie

Things are going great. I am sharing everything with her, and she is not threatened by my recovery. She is happy for me. She could probably benefit from the work too, but so far she hasn't shown too much interest in the toxic mind theory.

Frank
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html

123

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Fri Dec 31, 1999 7:30am

Subject: Happy New Year
I'm shutting down for Y2K. I hope the new year brings you the peace of mind you were born with.

Ellie
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
124

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sat Jan 1, 2000 10:11am

Subject: Hope for 2000
THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
I had a beautiful day watching the New Millennium arrive in the many countries that have agreed to distribute the self-help measures to all their prisoners. I have you on this list who have sent me your stories of recovery to thank, because it was your stories sent to Ambassadors and prison officials (pseudonyms only) that encouraged them to help with this project, which I believe will contribute to the end of violence. I was watching some children express their visions for the New Millennium. One little boy said...'there will still be bad guys, but some one will put a micro chip in their head they'll turn out good.' Wow! What a prophecy. Below are the countries reached so far.

Ellie

From the Testimonials:

The pamphlet with self therapy based on this discovery has been sent to all prisons in the USA, Canada, England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Singapore, Japan, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Kenya, Thailand, Iceland, San Marino, Zimbabwe, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, The Bahamas, Poland, Trinidad and Tobago, Swaziland, Zambia, France, Luxemboug, Switzerland, Croatia, Colombia, New Zealand, Italy, Sri Lanka, Chile, Hong Kong, and Turkmenistan.

"You are absolutely correct that when one of our wards decides to set out on the path to recovery, self-help as well as structured programs such as the twelve step are effective. Your personal biography adds perspective."

Director, State of California Youth Correctional Agency.

"Thank you for your information. I found it very informative and helpful. I really appreciate it. I also respect your continuous effort to fight against violence."

Corrections Bureau, Ministry of Justice, Japan

"We will translate if necessary." Estonian Prison Board.
"Thank you. Kindly send us copies of your pamphlet. We will gladly

forward them to our prisons in Kenya through diplomatic channels." US Ambassador from Kenya.

"Thank you, I am grateful for this extremely useful information, we will distribute the pamphlets to our 15 prisons and Prison Staff Training Centre." Prison Administration, Latvia.
"I am happy to distribute your material. I appreciate the value these programs can have in work with offenders. I will ensure that it is distributed via our INTRANET to all centers throughout the state of Queensland."

Department of Corrections, Queensland, Australia.

"Your interest in providing self-help materials for the inmates is well appreciated." Warden, Federal Prison, USA.
We have translated your pamphlet...into Slovak language...we have 18 prison institutions and the pamphlet will be sent to all of them." Director General of the Slovak Prison Administration.
The New Testament word for sin, 'hamartia,' comes from the sport of archery and means literally, "missing the mark"--misdirected anger!! The Biblical command in the Old and New Testament is: "Be angry and do not sin."
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." Matthew: 10:34-36.
"And there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain, for the former things are passed away." Revelation 21:4
"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and a little child shall lead them." Isaiah 11:6
In recovery we are as little children who can lead them
"And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." Isaiah 2:4.
Self help for depression is on:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html

The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on:

http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html