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192 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Jan 29, 2000 0:55pm Subject: Pain PS Carol, There are some good Natural Hygiene doctors who understand that most symptoms of disease are healing detox crises. Most recommend diets of mostly raw foods to help the detox. They are not much into the detox of negative emotions yet. During my detox of rage I had many acute disorders like the strep throat, severe back pain...lung problems. Just before I became post flood and was really getting rage out at my parents, I had a fever of 104 for about a week. That's pretty high for someone in her 70's. The high fever was my body reving up my metabolism to help me detox and heal. There's a saying in Natural Hygiene that in order to heal from a serious chronic disease, you have to re-experience the original acute disease. This is true for emotions too, when we have nervous symptoms they are like the acute distress we experienced in childhood, but if we redirect anger during them they will not be as painful as the original trauma. Ellie
> >From: Elnora Van Winkle> The high fever was my body reving up my metabolism to help me detox and heal. There's a saying in Natural Hygiene that in order to heal from a serious chronic disease, you have to re-experience the original acute disease. This is true for emotions too, when we have nervous symptoms they are like the acute distress we experienced in childhood. But if the anger is redirected during these crises, there should not be as much emotional pain as in childhood. Ellie
I have been mystified by a 'horrible' experience I had in group therapy last year. I had been in the group for over a year. I was having declining feelings about its effectiveness and the competence of the therapist. A new person entered, someone I had known for 12 years, an arms-length friendship, and all hell broke loose. Between the therapist, the newcomer-friend and myself, I CRASHED in the most devastating emotional experience I've ever had. Every horrible feeling I had ever lived with came together in one moment mainly humiliation, shame, guilt and rejection.
Now that I have read your note above most likely I reexperienced the 'worst' ancient or infant or childhood nightmare of my life in the group therapy context. The 'arms-length friend' raged at me in a phone call I made to her and she said in the group that I had negative perceptions and she did not want to be friends with me nor have me contact her in any way. Anyway, that confirmed my 'arms-length' friendship decision. I still rag mentally on that experience and do feel anger more at the therapist yet I am still confused about why I churn on it. I have tried to re-direct and it still comes up. The 'friend' might have justifiable anger however her anger is easier to understand. I do believe it is greatly misdirected at me about something that I twanged in her that is still alive. Anyway, that's what your comment reminded me off. I am still recovering from that incident and felt horrible emotionally for at least 3 months after I left and now it is simmering down a bit yet I see what revives it: if I see someone that is a friend of the therapist or friend, if their names come up. I did receive a flyer from the therapist in Nov advertising another Dec workshop and I wrote her a very polite note and asked her to take me off her mailing list. Anyway, if you have any thoughts. I've had a horrible relation to my mother who has a few personalities and feel in some respect that I have near emptied the till on anger toward her. I haven't filled out your post flood paper yet and did look it over. All the best, keep the great notes coming, I gain great insight from them. Sincerely, Sue
What an experience... and a shame most therapists don't see those experiences as opportunities for us to have our anger at parents and other early abusers. Our parents gave us life and then 'soul murdered' us or we would not be in this mess. I had a very similar experience with therapy, when the therapist and others in my group started picking on me when I was switching to all raw food. They insisted I was anorexic, skinny, etc., when it was they who still had food issues. Like you I felt humiliation, shame, guilt and rejection. The therapist would say to me outside of group, 'Ellie, how can I lose weight', and in group attack my food plan. I see now that they were misdirecting their anger at me. It did to me what it sounds like that did to you...bring up the original rejection by my parents and the 'put down' of my very being. By then I knew the shame and guilt were anger turned inward and the rejection was the original rejection by my parents. I finally got the courage to go to group and confront them. I was terrified (the fear that signaled my justifiable anger) but I did it...I told them all they were food addicts...they were furious... and I knew when I went home that it was really my parents who I confronted...and it was very freeing...and I left the group. I recall I told a friend I felt like a little child walking into my parent's bedroom and telling them to go to Hell. But like you, it came up again for a while after. I didn't write my therapist any polite notes, I sent her my paper and told her to apply the toxic mind theory to her methods. All I can say is that this is a periodic detox of the repressed anger and we get new opportunities to get more of it out at each new crisis. I went through similar rejections after that before I was free of the original hurt. Now that all (ie most, I tend to absolutes!) of my anger is out, no one in any group could ever cause me that pain again. My fight or flight reaction is intact...and I know how to use it. When people misdirect anger at me they hear about it. I hope when any feelings come up about your incident that you can do some more redirecting back to your parents and also to the therapist and the other person in the group. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jan 30, 2000 5:13am Subject: Irritable and sensitive Dear Shirely, I was thinking about what you said about still being irritable and sensitive, and I think this is normal...we are supposed to get irritable if abused...and be sensitive. The kind of sensitivity I used to have was that if someone said something that hurt me I would go home and try to kill myself by swallowing a bottle of pills. Now I love it if people tell me I'm too sensitive...it's a compliment that I'm in touch with my feelings and can calmly defend myself rather than destroy myself. Ellie Ellie > I'll tell my husband the good news - he'll be thrilled. ;-) No, but seriously I know he's already noticed that I'm happier and more contented, not so grouchy, etc., and he's very happy about it. We've talked about it a number of times. > I don't get that "haunted", devastated feeling I used to get where I REALLY felt left out or hurt or whatever, that was inappropriate to the situation and often created more of the same response from others. Now if I'm irritated, I'm irritated. Period. I used to even say "I've always got my mom looking over my shoulder" Just remembered that. A lot of my redirecting, as you suggested, has started to focus on more recent abusers. I had a real go at the whole bunch of them either last night or the night before, and punched the hell out of the refrigerator, but when it was over I felt like I'd just done the dishes or something. Shirley I love your self esteem... and knowing you have done the work of changing to a healthy diet is a real inspiration, and shows that this recovery doesn't have to take a lifetime. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jan 30, 2000 7:13am Subject: To old timers on this list When I developed the toxic mind theory the self-help measures came naturally to me, and I used them without any guidance from another person. It was just my new understanding of the simple concept of 'wrong neuron' that guided me. For this reason, I know that anyone can use the measures once they have read the article, and that a list such as this is really not necessary. As one person told me it is more of a re-enforcement. When I started the list I encouraged people to join and share their experiences so as to encourage others. I want to thank all of you who have shared in this way. But some of you post flood people have been on this list for a long time, and I want you to know that I will not be offended if you wish to leave the list. I don't want to spam your e-mail systems or coerce anyone into continuing to share because there are, thankfully, new people joining and sharing. All this is to say 'thank you' and if you no longer feel the need for this support, please unsubscribe...but send me a message before you go, and from time to time please keep in touch. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Jan 31, 2000 4:58am Subject: Re: To old timers on this list > I believe the mere presence of this list is great, and not solely because of the content. Whenever I receive another post from you, Ellie, it is another reminder of what I need to do in order to be happy. Without this list, I probably would have read the article, said "Yea, this sounds great!", and then promptly start willfully ignoring the advice because I didn't want to deal with my past emotions. To me, the list serves as a jump-start, every time I check my email. Dean
Ellie
:-)...you will still have some detox symptoms from detoxing food substances your body can't use. But when the central and peripheral nervous system is cleared out by the emotional work you are doing, these symptoms should be mild, because the sympathetic nervous system can do its daily job of detoxing the whole body. I still get mild headaches, back pain, etc. from time to time. Headaches can be from peripheral toxins too. There are no pain receptors in the brain so headaches are from toxins in the blood stream around the brain. And even post flood if you suppress emotions in current interactions, you can get nervous symptoms and depression again, and need more detoxing. Ellie
There are a number of people who have been on the list for a while who have never contacted me. If you are using the self-help measures in The Biology of Emotions article, or if you are someone who is helping another person use these measures, I would like to hear from you. If you contact me and do not want me to post your comments to the list you have only to say so, and I don't expect anyone to share on a continual basis. The list is not a place to find out whether you agree with the toxic mind theory, but a place to re-enforce the self-help measures based on this theory and to support you as you use the measures. For this reason I prefer not to flood your e-mail box with posts if you are not interested in using the measures. If I don't hear from you in two weeks, I will assume you are not interested and will unsubscribe you. If you wish to rejoin you are most welcome...just click on the button on my web sites, or save this link: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety Ellie 199 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Feb 1, 2000 9:18am Subject: No snails pace > Ellie, > I am going at a snails pace, but wish to remain on the list. The E-mail is so very encouraging. My living situation doesn't afford me the space to get as physical in my redirecting as I feel I need so I am doing mental redirecting. A little at a time. It seems to be having some effects on my bi polar mixed condition. My cycling is much more pronounced and I'm having uncontrollable outburst of anger in my relationship with my wife. Things are different and more erratic with my sleep patterns. Also I'm getting very real [right on descriptive] with my two therapist. Fred Dear Fred, I'm so glad you are into it and of course you'll stay on the list. I decided to screen new people to make it a safer place to share if people want to share. Mentally redirecting is great, that's where the healing is--in the mind--more so than physical in the body. It's a good sign if the cycling is more pronounced...it may get worse before the mood swings become less intense and less often...but they will slowly subside. Sleep patterns too will be more erratic until you are post flood. Scary dreams and periods of insomnia are detox crises. When you have the outbursts with your wife, be sure to realize much of the anger is repressed anger from childhood and needs to be redirected mentally to parents and all past abusers. Ellie It's 3:00 am and I'm wound up like an 8 day clock. I've been talking since 6:00am yesterday. Short burst of deep depression that go straight to the S word and then I take it to redirecting and then I'm manic again. Crazy! This is wild. I'm looking forward. I've made arrangements with a friend to use his heavy punching bag during the day. I'll keep you informed to the best of my ability. Fred Enjoy the 'highs'... they are not forever, but peace of mind is.... Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Feb 1, 2000 9:21am Subject: Quiet and Steady Unmitigated joy that is quiet and steady Has taken control and now I am quite ready for Life Ellie, I am gaining new ground every day. Just feeling so great. -- Love, Shirley 201 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Feb 1, 2000 11:29am Subject: Chemical Imbalance > Dear Ellie > I have been thinking of writing to you for some time, but I haven't been sure exactly what to say. I've been in psychotherapy for five and one-half years, and I have been on antidepressant and anti-anxiety meds for the same length of time. I've been diagnosed with major depressive disorder and generalized anxiety disorder. I had to leave my career as a minister because it became overwhelming. Not to mention that every older woman in the congregation reminded me of my mother! I grew up in a rural area in an abusive family, had problems socially in school, and although I found some outlet in the church it wasn't supportive. I'm 34 now, and am planning to change careers. Sometimes, though, I just don't know if I can make it. I've read your articles and found much in them to consider thoughtfully. I really don't know what stage I'm at. I used to have a lot of angry thoughts about my mother and others, but they don't come up as much anymore. Yet, I know that I overreact to things -- especially when someone starts talking about how women can't do certain things. I grew up with that kind of limiting talk/belief and I don't like someone making judgments about me on the basis of my gender. This is a very short summary, but perhaps you could help me identify where I'm at. I really do believe in the redirecting -- and my husband and I have a 70-LB punching bag in the garage, so I have a place to redirect the anger! But I wonder how much the medication suppresses the anger. I've been on 12 different meds, and the current ones are working "OK" but not great. I've been told I'll have this condition for life, and that I'll always be on meds because it's a chemical imbalance that resists correction. What do you think? Both anger and guilt were tools of intimidation in my family. Perhaps some of my resistance to letting out anger is that it makes me feel like my mother, who was always yelling at me. She had serious depression and anxiety; my dad was an alcoholic. Both are deceased. I have three siblings, all of whom are much older than me: 22 years, 18 years, and 13 years. (I cut off from these siblings about three years ago because I just couldn't tolerate their sickness and abuse.) So I essentially grew up an only child and had to be with my Mom a lot. She was very good at shaming and belittling me. Then when I got into high school, she suddenly wanted to be my best friend. By then I was so angry I wanted nothing to do with her. I was still angry when she died in 1993 and we essentially had no relationship. She was always distant and punishing when I was a child, but when I grew up she became like a helpless baby and tried to cling to me. I'm interested in your opinion about the meds and the "permanent" diagnosis I've received, and how they relate to detoxing. Thanks for your time and for the work you do. You can call me "Micah," as it's my pseudonym for the Internet. Dear Micah, I'm so pleased to hear from you. I too was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and anxiety disorder...and like you I was under psychiatric care for years and on many different medications...many at a time, and YES they suppress the anger that NEEDS to get out and be REDIRECTED. YES, we have a chemical imbalance and NO NO it is not true that this is permanent. The imbalance is caused by the suppression of negative emotions from childhood on, and the meds make the imbalance worse. The way to clear up the imbalance is to do the work of redirecting anger toward your abusive parents and all subsequent abusers during excitatory nervous symptoms, like fear, and guilt, guilt is anger turned inward and it needs to be redirected (see the list of symptoms in the articles). I would never want to suggest that you stop taking meds that are doctor's orders, especially if you are on an antidepressant because of suicidal tendencies. You can use the self-help measures while you are on meds, but you will have to use them with MUCH greater effort and persistence, and for a longer period of time. Hopefully if you try that punching bag consistently you will not want the meds any longer and can persuade your doctor to taper you off. Ellie
I wonder if I will ever be able to change the patterns I've learned, even if I clear out my neurons completely. So many years of feeling needy. The thing that bothered me the most today was she went against an agreement we have that I can listen to tapes and reject the ones I can't hear before working on them (because of my hearing loss - I do excellent work on clear tapes). She asked me about a tape I'd rejected today, and she said, "I'll give it a listen." I said, "Look, just remember that just because you can hear it doesn't mean I can hear it." She said, "Oh, I know you pretty well." She listened to it, deemed it "okay" and made me type it. I was furious, but didn't say anything more. To add insult, my boss came down on me today too when I said the people who send these tapes to us shouldn't send tapes like the incoherent ones I was working on (which were the worst in my experience, really bad, and I rarely complain). She said "that's irrelevant"! To me that sounds like "You're irrelevant. Just make me some money and shut up." I can hear my inner critic saying "Don't be petty. Stop complaining. You'll never get anywhere in life if you're a negative person. Don't be contentious. You're to egotistical." Something's got to give here, because there are two diametrically opposed systems of conduct fighting for ascendancy in my consciousness. The bottom line is I'm SMOLDERING and all bent out of shape about this. I've banged on the refrigerator had, twice tonight, but I also wrecked a gorgeous piece of artwork I made yesterday that took many hours to create. It was a painted wooden box with a beaded butterfly on it. I just pulled it apart and shredded it. Guess I still feel at some level I'm "not being spiritual" and I'm taking it out on myself. How can I learn to calmly have conflicts with people?! I guess I have hundreds of hours of redirecting work yet to do and I really don't know how to deal with these feelings. On some small level I do feel a difference in the type of anger I'm experiencing (I'm not depressed; I'm just PISSED OFF). As I write, I do clearly feel I'm not wallowing in depression at all. But the anger and the need to be accepted, I cannot deal with. You asked if I've experienced grief. A little has come up lately. It felt good. Sorry this was such a long post. Going to bed now, feeling much better. Thanks for your "ears." --Shirely Dear Shirley, I'm seeing red too...I'm furious at them. Congratulations again for having a fit. "It was a painted wooden box with a beaded butterfly on it. I just pulled it apart and shredded it." Sound like that butterfly is your mother... I hope you are not discouraged by this...those other people who are "able to get along" are just shut down, and your concern about not being able to have your anger calmly just means some more work at redirecting for you. It's your parent's voices in your head again... Be good to your self...you are a winner. Ellie Yüklə 5,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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