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367 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 3:16am Subject: Re: Mother's wisdom > Dear Ellie > Please give my best regards to Sally. This list is fantastic. It reminds me of my own parents.... or rather, my father. I have no significant memories of my mother. Love, Frank Sally again on Mother's wisdom 1. My Mother taught me about ANTICIPATION... "Just wait until your father gets home."
"You are going to get it when we get home!" 3. My Mother taught me to MEET A CHALLENGE... "What were you thinking? Answer me when I talk to you ... Don't talk back to me!" 4. My Mother taught me LOGIC... "If you fall out of that swing and break your neck, you're not going to the store with me." 5. My Mother taught me MEDICAL SCIENCE... "If you don't stop crossing your eyes, they are going to freeze that way." 6. My Mother taught me to THINK AHEAD... "If you don't pass your spelling test, you'll never get a good job. 7. My Mother taught me ESP... "Put your sweater on; don't you think I know when you're cold?" 8. My Mother taught me HUMOUR... "When that lawn mower cuts off you toes, don't come running to me." 9. My Mother taught me how to BECOME AN ADULT... "If you don't eat your vegetables, you'll never grow up." 10. My Mother taught me about SEX.... "How do you think you got here?" 11. My Mother taught me about GENETICS... "You're just like your father." 12. My Mother taught me about my ROOTS... "Do you think you were born in a barn?" 13. My Mother taught me about WISDOM OF AGE... "When you get to be my age, you will understand." 14. And my all time favorite...JUSTICE... "One day you'll have kids, and I hope they turn out just like you. Then you'll see what its like" 368 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 1:08am Subject: Archives If you have been trying to read the Archives, which I hope new members will do, I had it set to moderators only. Please try again. Click on: http://www.onelist.com/settings/Depression-Anxiety and click on messages. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 2:14am Subject: Re: Treated like a cat > Dear Ellie, > my eyes were dry a long time. Since ten years I try to be aware of the huge pain that is captured in me. There are so many abusers that sometimes it gets difficult to redirect any feeling. What Alice Miller described as Poisonous Pädagogy has survived in many ways. You can find it in psychotherapy too. Most people have accepted it as "normality". Be kind to the ones who are above you and hit the ones below! Fortunately I wasn't get drafted. You can't imagine, what this had meant in the GDR. I haven't been in the army, because they had wanted to annoy me for bounding me for three years (it was a persuasion) and then step back. In such cases they used to wait, till you got family/job and draft you at 30 or so. I was lucky that the Wall was opened at the right time. I have no idea of what had happened to me, if I had been drafted, although I was for two weeks in a prepairing camp. The only reason for the army seemed to have been humiliating, mistreating, abusing one another. This is where German pedagogy comes from: preussian barrack-yard! On the other hand most of the male people had to go there and gave on, what they had "learned" there. In the whole GDR was a kind of barrack-yard to me! > My parents have the gift, to take by giving. If they contact me, they are brave, they want to do something for me, invite me and so on, but I'm aware of my tension to rise. I know that this is also a kind of abuse, but it is much more difficult, to deal with. They manipulate me (unconsciously) with feelings of guilt. (I just hit the desk, oh what an energy!) >
> LET ME BE ON MY OWN! YOU HAVE DAMAGED MY LIFE ENOUGH! IF YOU WANT SOMETHING FROM ME THEN SAY IT DIRECTLY! YOU MISTREATED ME WHILE PRETENDING TO HELP ME! >
> My mother used to hit me, when I said: Shit! They let me no way, to get my anger out. >
> SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT >
> I NEVER WANT TO BE LIKE YOU, FATHER! I AM NOT WHAT YOU BOTH SEE IN ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >
> YOU HAVE TO LET ME GO MY OWN WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Andrew
Ellie
>
> I met someone over the internet about 8 months ago. We use to talk on the phone nearly every day and I developed quite a codependent relationship with her. Now she has moved on to some degree but we still talk to each other occasionally, but not like we use to. I have lingering feelings of rejection and being betrayed and verbally mistreated by her. Sometimes when I am feeling depressed and empty inside I start to obsess on her and get caught up in very bad feelings towards her. I was feeling especially angry and felt like I wanted revenge of some sort. I wasn't even making much of an attempt to redirect any of the anger I was feeling, but was pretty much allowing myself to channel all my angry feelings into her. I wrote her an e-mail, and in it I said many unkind things. I wanted to let her know what I thought about her and to lash out with my words...I wanted to hurt her if I could (guilt guilt). I spent a good portion of time writing the e-mail, thinking of all the things I could say and how I could say it. I felt so much anger inside and it seemed to intensify as I continued to write. My intention was to send the e-mail, but I decided not to after all. I'm glad I didn't because I don't really want to hurt anybody. I can say that now because I don't feel the angry feelings I did then. I was wondering though, do you think writing that e-mail to her could have been a positive thing as long as I didn't send it? I wasn't really directing anger towards past abusers as you recommend...she is a current abuser, if I can even call her an abuser. I don't know if it was good for me or not. I did call her the other night and we had a decent talk and I got off the phone feeling good about the conversation. Maybe writing that unsent e-mail might have helped because I didn't want to say unkind things to her when we were talking on the phone. I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on this. >
> Also, I do not perceive myself as a visual person. I'm sure you are aware that there are different ways that people process the world, some visually, some kinesthetically, some auditorially. I find myself having a difficult time picturing past abusers in my mind if I desire to direct anger towards them. I have tried to just direct anger towards the feelings I have with the sense that I am talking to a past abuser in my mind even though I may not have an idea or picture of who I'm talking to specifically. I'm thinking this might work better for me than trying to create pictures in my mind. I'm just experimenting at this point but am not doing much redirecting work...thinking about it more than doing it. I think I just need to find what works for me best and go with it...that's probably what I'll do when I stop thinking about it...I think too much. Sensitive introverts have a tendency to do that. :) Daniel
However you think of your parents, visual or audio, you will find the best ways. Lots of times I just talked in my head to my parents, "Its all your fault I'm scrubbing floors" 'It's all your fault I married a gambler" "Shut up...get out of my head," Try to concentrate on recognizing the triggers for detox crises...see the list, like misdirected anger, which was what happened with your friend, ie the feeling of hurt, and then wanting to direct it ALL at her...guilt etc. You're on the right path. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 11:50pm Subject: Mind and body Ellie, I'm hurting again. I've thrown again. redirected. I'm still enraged & hurt. it's so painful. It's hard to believe this will ever end. my whole body hurts. It feels so out of control internally.. I feel so full of hate & hurt. My body just goes wild, not just my mind. it's my body that does me in. I was rejected yet again. by the same person. how dumb can I get. pretty dumb it seems. Yes I hate them for not being there to comfort me for hurting me & making me distrust men alot but people in general. I don't even know what I did that made this man be so hateful to me. and he wont say. what I'm missing in this process is the nurturing parent to comfort me. I need physical touch. . what I'm now seeing is: the abuser, parent would abuse me, I would need comfort, they were not comforters but I would get co-dependent of comforting touch. do anything to get it. I still react the same way, my body sensations are beyond what I can handle. ie meds. Laura The detox in the brain means that toxins flow through the body before they are eliminated--they impinge on nerve endings and cause pain--and also there is a detox going on in the peripheral nervous system. Sorry to say, but that your whole body hurts is a good sign, and means you are making progress. In between detox crises, you may be tired and depressed and sleep more. Keep up the redirecting and when you feel the rejection by this man, redirect the anger to your parents...the real pain is from the original rejection by your parents. IT WILL END. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 0:28am Subject: Religions > Ellie -- 1 - I realized this a.m. as I was meditating in bed before I got up, that I have not been redirecting when I feel moderately excitable - like when I react inappropriately to stuff at home with (my husband) and get mad about little things or become way too sensitive. We just ride it out, and I should be going over to the wall (my new spot) to bang away for a couple minutes. I think if I can remember to do this, I'll get through this Muddy Basin phase a lot faster. I guess I've gotten "lazy" about it. (No self-judgment intended.) 2 - Last night I checked out a chat board of a "Metaphysical Society" (in the "new thought" vein) thinking these might be interesting conversations of somewhat more enlightened individuals. Oh man, not quite! What I read enlightened ME: These people are deeply co-dependent! So much judgment and advice giving and pontificating! The needy ones were asking for help with all sorts of negative situations, and the ones who have it all figured out (;-o) were giving them horrific advice that amounted to: "Wallow in that job until you love those abusive people. You don't want a night job? Then get a night job!! You need it. You'll learn from it. Work shit jobs that are completely beneath you until you love those jobs. As long as your boss isn't physically abusive, you need to stay there and learn from him, because you created that situation." Etc., etc. (Of course, as in all teachings, there are kernels of truth embedded in there somewhere, but I see these ideas as somehow perverting the truth.) God, I am so glad I am not mesmerized by any of those teachings anymore. They are treacherous and keep people STUCK and dependent and even more needy. I remember when people used to give me such advice, I'd get a bad feeling in my heart center, like a wound. Now I don't anymore because I have the armor of knowing better. I've moved on, and I am a better, more compassionate person for it. You are right. So many spiritual teachings and teachers are a part of the whole sickness. I am fortunate to have discovered and followed the teachings (not as a guru or anything) or a wonderful metaphysical healer named Joel Goldsmith who teaches that we must completely impersonalise every flaw, every "sin", every problem and never judge a person as anything but God appearing to us. He said the whole metaphysical movement was flawed and incapacitated by its practitioners constantly looking to uncover the wrongdoing or error that was causing the individual's sickness or lack. And because he viewed everyone in this way, he healed thousands upon thousands of people. There are very few schools of religious thought that I can believe or follow. The ones that appeal to me have the quality of non-judgment as their common denominator. I think I'm healing. I know I'm not done, and I'll probably have a few more "outbursts" to go through, but it's well worth the struggle, . Love, Shirely
> You are not naive. You're a visionary. It's time for mass consciousness to have a new vision of reality that breaks the chains of judgment and repression. This is wonderful news, and though it's only the beginning, I really feel it will keep growing, like your mustard seed analogy, and gradually "infiltrate" even the darkest corners of society (prisons, juvenile detention centers, psyche wards). > Love, Shirely
Love, Ellie >
I seem to be in a pattern of feeling better physically and then getting sick again. I have been feeling blocked up in my intestines for the last two weeks or longer. Could detoxing be going on for that long? I get these fears that I have some horrible disease and feel fearful a lot. Also have been crying a lot the last few days. Does grieving cause toxins to be released into your system that could make me feel sick? Seems that I have released a lot of toxins over these last four months and wonder how much more there could be. I feel I have been pretty faithful in the redirecting. When the pain comes back it always seems to be in a new location but always somewhere in the middle of my body. Carol
The arbitrary point of post flood is when most of the anger is gone and mood swings are at a minimum, but some of the detoxing goes on for much longer than four months. It sounds like a good sign that you are crying a lot, and are going through the grief stage that usually follows the release of most of the repressed anger. And yes, more toxins from the grief are released into the system and can make you feel sick. But if you have not switched to a really natural diet, much of this could be from foods that are not utilized by the body and therefore make you toxic. This means you can have periodic detox crises that are physical symptoms. I am two years post flood and I eat a very clean diet of all raw food, and yet I still get toxic from time to time and get sick, ie have periodic detox symptoms. But if you have concerns, I would definitely get a check up to make sure nothing is seriously wrong. This is why I put a disclaimer on the article and I'm posting it here for new people. It might be good to have a check up before starting the self-help measures. Ellie
If the physical symptoms correlate in time with the release of emotions, they probably have more to do with emotions than food, and should subside in time even if your diet is not perfect. Ellie
I have been seeing a therapist, psychiatrist, and have prescribed Paxiland Trazodone. After reading your paper on the biology of emotional disorders, I was greatly relieved that I could do more to help myself and study other resources pertaining to my anger. My mother is a therapist and I am currently living with her. Two weeks ago I showed her your paper to read and told her that I thought it was helpful to me. This week I noticed my mother acting different and asked her about it. She replied, "You are misperceiving." I told her, "I too can observe reality." From there we went round and round until I said, "You never say your sorry when we have these spats and I usually write you a note apologizing for my half of the upset. Why? And why didn't you visit me when I was in jail for 6 months? You're my mother. With this she said I shamed her. I could have had a heart attack right there on the spot. I felt intense pressure and rage. My mother then said she cannot deal with my outbursts and left the house and rode off down the road. Now I feel anger and guilt. I prayed to God for understanding and felt that she had as much to do with this scene as I had and that she was ill also. Should I just leave her and not care about her anymore because she won't try to account and get on with my life or is there something I can do? I will always love her. Help! Kelly
> P.S. If I cannot receive an apology from her, what can I do to rechannel my intense feelings appropriately so I don't hurt myself? Dear Kelly, It is not easy to do this while living with parents, but you can do it. I don't want to advise anyone about whether to stay with or leave parents. You will know what is best as you use the self-help and recover yourself. Your mother was confronted by the article, but sounds like she is not at a bottom and ready to recover herself. I hope you can detach from her issues and work on your own recovery. If you confront her as you did, you are not likely to get any apologies. It is best if you can retreat from these interactions with her, and go and find a bed and do some pounding on it and mentally think about her and direct your anger at her. If you feel guilt, guilt is anger turned inward. It's your mother's voice in your head, saying you should be ashamed of yourself. Go and pound on the bed and redirect that anger back to her, but not in person. She is not ready to hear it. You will always love her, but try not to think about that when you need to redirect anger at her. When all your anger is out at your parents and other past abusers, you will be better able to deal with her and you will truly love her, maybe use tough love with her, but for now try not to interact. She is feeling guilty after reading the paper and she needs to redirect her own anger back to her parents, but she may not be ready to see that she needs the same help you are now getting. Please keep reading the article to get the idea of all the excitatory nervous symptoms as triggers for you to release and redirect anger, and keep reading the Archives. Let me know how it goes. Ellie
I have been working 12 step meetings since 1989 plus therapy, drugs, jail, one on one, group therapy, intensive inpatient clinics and until I read your work on the biology of emotional disorders I would roller coaster my rehabilitation. On and off. Intense and "the hell with it." I read Janov's "Primal Scream" when it came out but I saw no relationship as I was in denial and the 60`s/70`s era claimed peace, love, dope. Normal when a counter-culture does it right? Ha! But then that's beside the point. What my basic problem has been all my life is the "mishandling" or more accurately "misdirecting" my repressed anger. I would feel the flood of adrenalin and think God I should not feel this anger it is wrong and then stuff it or misdirect it suffering grievous consequences with my family, friends, and anybody who got in my face; even at an AA meeting. By following your train of thought I can understand that I will always have some anger. I dream lately of being Post primal flood. I don't really know what it could be as I am still working toward that end but, I have had some really great dreams lately. I feel so free and impassioned that I wake up and cry in awe. I of course fall back in the angry slot with my mother as I have recently wrote to you about. I'm still learning and will always keep learning till I push up flowers. Your archive in March message 307 simmered my melodramatic rage down. Essentially it was about calm confrontation. Your right! I will keep out of my mother's way until I can calmly confront her about issues. Yes, she owns her problems and I mine. You know in AA they urge people to not run other peoples inventories. This is where I can get confused when it comes to suppressed anger from the past. It is clearer to me now thanks to you. Kelly Dear Kelly, Our stories are so much alike. Jail for me was the violent ward of mental hospitals. And AA, another dysfunctional family system...they told us anger is for normal people...well, there might be some truth in that...WE are getting normal...see Archive 74 on normalcy. It's from Janov and a fairly good description of normalcy. Speaking of Janov I hear he has a new book, but from the reviews he still does not understand all the biology. I haven't read it. I sent him my paper, yet he sounds like he's still into some misconceptions about the biology. But he made a great contribution to healing with his primal therapy. The self-help measures based on my discovery of the true biology of all this bring us to post flood, (same as his post primal, ie no more major detox crises...a primal is a detox crisis) much faster than primal therapy. I have friends who have been in primal therapy 20 years and with the self help measures you can be post flood in a few months. After most of the anger is gone, and you're in the muddy basin period, the anger will be a mix of anger related to present and past, but with diminishing amounts related to the past. After a year or so, the anger will be mild and about current situations. The fight or flight reaction will be restored. It is this physiological response that was suppressed and which caused the toxicosis. In recovery we have normal anger, and what is so wonderful, is that it is no longer mixed with fear. Neurotic fear is due to the release of toxic amounts of adrenaline that accumulated as a result of suppressing the fight or flight reaction. Ellie Yüklə 5,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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