This file contains all the messages in the Yahoo group currently located at the link below. This will allow you to read through the messages off-line
Subject: Re: Primal therapy vs. redirecting
Yüklə 5,47 Mb.
|
Subject: Re: Primal therapy vs. redirecting > <> >
> > Ellie,
> Could you go into more detail about how redirecting is different from what happens in Primal Therapy? I ask because I had a brief taste of Primal Therapy 30 years ago. I went to 3 one hour sessions with a woman psychologist, and definitely spent most of that time screaming and yelling at my parents, but I could not afford any more sessions. >
> I have mixed feelings about my experience: on the one hand, it erupted the volcano of my repressed anger and definitely directed it against my parents, but on the other hand, I didn't know about redirecting what was left, and so the lack of follow up and follow through, I believe, did a lot of damage. Now 2 broken marriages later, I find myself "coming full circle" in a way to pick up where I left off 30 years ago and redirect the anger that surfaced then. >
> Did you go through Primal Therapy with Janov yourself? I ask because you mentioned that Janov has a photograph of bruises that appeared on your body from a birth trauma. And also, what does Janov need to revise about his views of biology? GM A primal is a detox crisis, ie the release of excess neurochemicals that store repressed anger in toxic neurons, but sometimes a detox crisis is somewhat vicarious, (see the diagram Wrong Neuron! in my article) ie anger misdirected toward others who may be innocent or partially innocent, or anger turned inward toward oneself rather than to the specific abusers (memory of them is stored in the brain). When a detox crisis is vicarious it can be more painful emotionally, to others AND to oneself, (the boys at Littleton, Co were detoxing vicariously) because many neurons are being unnecessarily excited. This causes more emotional pain to oneself. Vicarious detox crises are healing but less so than when the anger is consciously directed toward the abusers because the most toxic neurons are not being cleared of toxins. In primal therapy anger is likely to be directed toward the abusers since one is imagining an early experience, (this happens also in Dianetic therapy used by Scientologists) but if one is not consciously aware of the need to redirect during a primal, the primal may be more vicarious, more emotionally painful, and less healing because nerve impulses are diverted and the most toxic ones are not getting detoxed. I never had primal therapy myself. I mentioned I developed bruises on my legs where I was held upside down and spanked at birth. This was just before I became post flood when I spent a week or so raging at my parents for having given birth to me and then rejecting me emotionally. I was also consciously redirecting to the doctor who held me upside down. I was having many detox crises, (you might call them primals) throughout the day. You might say I was re-experiencing the birth trauma just as some of Janov's clients do in their therapy. Janov has pictures, not of me, but of some of his clients who also developed bruises. I don't like to call these regressions because there is no time regression in the brain. Characteristics of current experience and early experience are stored in the same neural pathways, and therapy (primal or my self-help measures) eliminates the emotional pain of those experiences because it clears toxins from those pathways. The emotional pain and symptoms are the result of the toxicosis and the vicarious detox crises. The best way I can answer your question about Janov's theories of biology needing revision is to say that he has been unaware that toxicosis in the neurons is the cause, and while some of his views about how the nervous system works are accurate, his basic premise is not correct. I have read nearly all of his books and sent him my paper. Although he recently published a new book, his views are still not based on the basic cause, ie the toxicosis. I hope someday he will revise his views, since his primal therapy was a great gift and contribution to healing. You would need to study my scientific paper and compare it to his assessment of what is going on in the brain to see this more clearly. From what I have read Janov, and I'm sure others, encourage clients to redirect during sessions although I think some therapists are not actively encouraging clients to do this, and clients in groups are more or less on their own. I went to one rebirthing session myself where I did some screaming but no one encouraged me to direct it to parents. Because I was trying to imagine my birth and did do some screaming I'm sure some of it was directed to my parents, but if I had known more about the importance of redirecting, I think I might have been able to accomplish more healing in that session. I have read stories of much emotional pain during primals. This means that during a primal one may be detoxing neurons vicariously rather than clearing out the most toxic neurons. If you study my scientific paper, this may be a bit clearer. It's hard to explain without getting into the anatomy of the nervous system. I have heard from some primal therapists that they are incorporating my discovery in their work and it should make their therapy more effective. I hope too that more psychiatrists and psychoanalysts will recover and incorporate the redirecting in their work. What is exciting about the toxic mind theory and the self-help measures is that by doing the redirecting at the first sign of an excitatory nervous symptom, (the beginning of a detox crisis) one avoids some of the emotional pain of vicarious detox crises. Secondly, by doing this at the onset of nervous symptoms one can do it all day long rather than in therapy sessions. This is the real gift of this theory and why people can recover in a short time. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jul 2, 2000 9:07pm Subject: Just like Mike Tyson > I pounded the mattress like a heavyweight champ, long and hard. I must have delivered a few knockout punches as I felt tired and better after. It will be a regular thing from now on! GM Hooray for you. I'm sure that's why heavyweight champs get into fighting, to help themselves heal. Too bad most don't know about redirecting. Ellie 554 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jul 2, 2000 9:47pm Subject: Re: To take Arms Against A Sea of Troubles > > Dear Ellie, > I have exploded in a bombardment of correspondence to you recently which should abate now that I am taking effective action with self help. > I think you'll have a breather for a while. I want to divorce interaction from "attention seeking." My two posts to you were the exception to today's "Computer Holiday." > > The following is a copy of a message I am saving for some thought (not for long) before dispatching it to my Family Physician who administers the "shots" recommended by the allergist. I'm holding off because there has been a vast improvement in my reaction to the vortex of the dust mite problem, the bedroom. My detox measures may be only partly responsible for the improvement. I need a week of objective observation before making an impulsive decision. > ********* > Dear Dr. "L", >
> Please have reception cancel the balance of Friday appointments. >
> I am choosing to NOT endure the toxic side effects of the anti dust mite allergy shots at present. I am sick for three days following each injection, dizzy, dry mouth, tingling and tension. Medicine has made me ill for months now and challenged my immune system. This originated with the sixteen day course of Prednisone prescribed by Dr. "H" which I was reluctant to take because I anticipated the side effects accurately. Rhinocort, Prednisone and a host of other poisons have exhausted my body's ability to fight back. >
> I am going to deal with my allergies by surrounding myself with natural products and materials as much as possible, testing my reactions to various foods and paying close attention to my emotional climate. Dr. "E", the allergist, was kind but also quick. He gave me assembly line recommendations that are not entirely suitable. From the adjoining waiting room, I overheard him process two other patients with identical words and orders. I see that I have to take responsibility for the allergy problem myself. >
> I am not totally against all prescription remedies. Eltroxin, Vaginal Premarin and even the sometimes controversial Zanex have been effective and have had no noticeable side effects. However the Cortisone family seems to provoke strong adverse reactions in me and so does the allergy serum. Your help and concern have been appreciated for the past fifteen years and I want us to continue to work together in future, but with a minimal use of overpowering chemicals" GM Not being a doctor I do not want to suggest avoiding medical treatment and am well aware it can be life saving. I think it is important to be diagnosed and I would go to a doctor if I suspected any serious trouble. I personally would not want to have toxins injected into me unless it was a life saving emergency. I suspect the dust injections might work like homeopathy and trigger useful detox crises, but I think your allergy problems will resolve when you are post flood. You will be even MORE allergic to toxins, but will avoid them. Please don't apologize for correspondence to me. I love it. If you have some guilt about that....anger needs to be redirected at you know who. Ellie 555 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jul 2, 2000 10:02pm Subject: Allergies > "Wrong Way Corrigan tried a solo flight across the Atlantic and landed where he started." >
> All the "work I planned for today couldn't have been worse. Retreat, meditation and withdrawal from my usual procedures and activities resulted in major panic attacks and terrible nervous tension. Towards evening, I put on makeup, visited my son and his wife, took a sip of a martini and had the first fresh fruit in weeks, mangos and black cherries. I capped it off with a chocolate covered vanilla ice cream bar. There was no reaction until an hour later when I put on the shirt I was carrying. All hell broke loose. I checked the label. It was rayon. Rayon was popular in the 1940's and was eclipsed by nylon, polyester and other synthetics. It has made a big comeback recently. I went on the Internet to find out what is used in converting cellulose pulp (wood) in to rayon fiber. The ingredients are killers. I see my body is fighting for escape from poison food and poison elements in my environment and I have to listen carefully. >
> Today I learned to pound my mattress and pillows like a heavyweight boxer and it felt good but I couldn't focus or direct anger at any particular person or situation. THAT WAS THE WORK I SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING! GM >
556 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jul 2, 2000 11:54pm Subject: Re: Parental Infidelity > When I was younger and dating around I was involved with someone that I met where I worked as a cocktail waitress, he used to be the UPS driver for a former office that I had just worked at. Anyway, we got involved to the point where he would meet me after work at 2 am and then we would go out for breakfast and spend hours over coffee. One night, after a few weeks of this, he came in with a group of people, male and female and I was off work that night and just sitting at the bar with some friends, he came up and asked me to dance - slow dance, no less, and when we got done we walked off of the dance floor and one of his male buddies was standing there waiting for us and he said, hey, Bill, I wish you would get your wife to quit bugging me to dance, I just turned around and said, your WHAT? He just kind of grinned and said, oh, yeah, I guess I forgot to mention that! I walked away form him and told him to never contact me again -- that week I got a dozen red roses EVERY day at home from him begging me to talk to him. When I finally did he gave me the same old song and dance of how his marriage was in name only and he wasn't sleeping with her anymore, etc., etc. Well, I fell hard for this guy and he ended up kicking his wife out and moving me in -- then lo and behold, four months later I caught him with his brothers ex girlfriend! Once a cheat, always a cheat! If they will do it FOR you, they will do it TO you. I find it very hard to trust anyone again. GM Sounds like you were attracted to men like your father, who I think you said was unfaithful perhaps to his wife, but he was also unfaithful to you as a parent. I hope you are using the self-help measures to get your anger out at your father. When you are post flood you will recognize such people and no longer be attracted to them. You will be able to trust because you will be attracted to trustworthy people. Ellie 557 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Jul 2, 2000 11:59pm Subject: Re: Respect your elders? > The respect your elders is that little mother voice isn't it! I didn't catch on to that til now. I can be respectful in the fact that I do the right thing, respect doesn't mean doing it 'their' way, right. GM That's the way I see it. The first commandment is to love God and the fifth to honor thy father and mother. I don't think honor means 'love' in the codependent sense, which is what most parents demand from us. And yes, I tell that 'mother voice' to 'Get out of my head!' Ellie 558 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Jul 3, 2000 0:07am Subject: Re: nightmares > Ellie, for first time in a long time, I am having nightmares and dreams of bizarre things, I think because I'm about to confront the employee on the neutral ground of I'm the boss, she's the employee today. Dream was I had made this horrific decision to move and woke up thinking I had actually made that decision and asked my husband, did I do this, and this and he said no, it took me about 15min to actually convince myself I had not made a bad decision. Then I had a dream this morning, that my other employees, mother came in and asked for her time sheets, that she wasn't working anymore til she checked to see that I was doing everything right, I told her, if I wasn't, trust me the government would have already let me know. See the 71 year old lady, told me when I started taking out taxes, that she wasn't working anymore til she talked to her accountant, but it was said in passing so to speak and never said specifically that she wasn't going to be at work today. I'm sure all that was my subconscious mingled with past and present situations. GM I think your dreams are trying to detox your anger, and this is a good example of someone post flood, as I know you are, who needs to be vigilant about not suppressing anger in current interactions. There may be a bit of past anger at your mother, also the elder, but most of it seems to be about this 71 year old woman. Ellie 559 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Jul 3, 2000 1:16am Subject: Re: redirecting sex "addiction" > Ellie, > Could you address the issue of redirecting sexual addiction -- especially among males, since I are one? > I'm not sure I buy into the "addiction" label for sex, but I definitely think there is sexual compulsivity, and I wonder what the biology of that emotional state is. I can understand why it would be called a sexual addiction, since there must be some endogenous brain chemicals that I become addicted to when I feel the sexual compulsion come on and must seek relief by looking at Internet porn, having phone sex, and even going out and cruising. > I have found a marked decrease in this compulsivity since I started redirecting 2 weeks ago. For the first time in "I don't know when," sex is just no big deal anymore. It feels like it is finally taking its rightful place in my normal "priority list," no longer #1, but slipping maybe even out of the top 10. > > Also, this compulsivity seems to cut across homo- and hetero- lines. That is: the problem is not sexual preference, but rather the compulsive quality of one's sexual nature, whether you are attracted to same sex, opposite sex, or both. GM In a physiological sense the attraction to sex is the same as for any other stimulant, like alcohol, shopping, gambling, food, power, money, falling in love, you name it. The stimulants, chemical or psychological, trigger needed detox crises so if our brains are toxic we will be attracted to them compulsively. It's similar to homeopathy. See my scientific paper for a more scientific explanation of how this works. During the detox crises there is a release of excess noradrenaline, and this produces the 'high.' It's the same manicky 'high' produced by antidepressants. It is this high that we crave. Stimulants can be addicting for those of with toxic brains. Post flood people can safely drink or use stimulants without becoming addicted, but are not likely to want them, certainly not in excess. I have not tried alcohol because I know it is toxic and my body would not like it, and I don't think it would make me feel high anyway. I have had codeine after some dental work. It relieved the pain, but did not make me high because there was no release of excess noradrenaline to make me high. One of the suggestions I make is to do some redirecting when a craving occurs, but also never to feel guilty if you go ahead. The guilt is just that critical parental voice, and the cravings will subside. The craving for sex or any of the other addictions will become less and less as the need to detox is less, ie as you approach post flood. With dietary changes too, sex should not be compulsive post flood but be much more pleasurable when you do have it! Hope you enjoy it. Ellie 560 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Jul 3, 2000 10:24pm Subject: You may become childlike If you get enthusiastic about raging and redirecting you may find yourself temporarily childlike, although I would not accurately describe this as a regression since there is no time regression in the brain. My scientific paper was enthusiastically accepted by an editor who planned a special edition and invited me to speak at his International convention along with Alice Miller. When I sent him a draft of my proposed speech, which included my story of recovery, he cancelled everything. It may have been confrontational. He did me a great favor. It triggered my birth trauma, i.e., he gave birth to my theory and then rejected it just as my parents gave birth to me and rejected me emotionally. I was furious at him, but I knew to redirect my rage at my parents. I had a fever of 104 for over a week, high for someone my age. It was my increased metabolism helping me to detox. I raged on and off for several weeks and this is what brought me to post flood. It was at this time I had the bruise marks from where I was held upside down at birth because I also raged at the doctor who assisted my mother. This cleared neural pathways to the areas of specific injury and the reappearance of bruises was part of the healing process in that area of my body. I also pretended I was not born yet while lying on my bed concentrating on being in my mothers womb (much of that memory is still in the brain), and I found myself kicking at my mother. This was a technique I think is similar to the Dianetics used by Scientologists. Hubbard's description of what is going on in the brain is not accurate, but like Janov, he developed techniques that work, and the toxic mind theory provides the proof that his and Janov's techniques work. I had no more major detox crises after this. I was what I arbitrarily define as post flood, ie maybe 95% of the repressed anger related to childhood was gone. During this time I wrote a letter to a friend. I was trying to convince her to get angry instead of taking sedatives. I wrote the letter knowing I was pretending to be a child and talking to her as a child, but what I did not know was that the letter would come out in child's handwriting and language. This happened because my raging and redirecting were clearing out toxins and re-opening neural pathways where childhood memories and attributes were stored. I thought you might enjoy seeing this letter. The 'moms' I referred to represented the adults (the parental voices in our toxic minds) in each of us. The adult in me seemed to be having a nervous breakdown, which of course was a healing event and what brought me to post flood. My friend was going on a retreat to try and calm down. The Chris I referred to was Chris Farley from Saturday Night Live. I knew him from AA. He was very overweight and had just died I think from an OD on drugs. Looking at this letter I see how dyslexic I was, bumb for dumb in 'bumb retreat.' Here is the letter. I like the verse about 'Unless ye become as little children, ye shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.' I hope you can open attachments, if not and you would like to read the letter send me mailing address. Ellie Attachment 138k (image/jpeg) LaLaLetter.jpg 561 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Jul 4, 2000 7:08pm Subject: Normalcy-New ways of thinking > Hi Ellie, > I've just been rereading some of the posts on being normal. I sure can relate to a lot of the neurotic type behaviors. The part about never being satisfied with where your living and always looking for someplace to feel at "home", I can especially relate to. I remember 3 of my sisters telling me about them all having the same dream about a house (ours) at the top of a hill and in the dream they could never ever quite make it to the door of the house where they would be safe. There must have been something very insecure about our family environment. I am hoping that I will come to experience the disappearance of some of this neurotic stuff and finally be able to feel at home wherever I am. I would think that these feelings, thoughts would not necessarily change overnight as beliefs and thought patterns that you've held most of your life would have to be replaced by new patterns and thoughts. Am I thinking correctly about this? I know some things have already changed. I don't feel that extreme anger rising up anymore and I look forward to becoming more and more normal (real). Love, GM
Yüklə 5,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
|