This file contains all the messages in the Yahoo group currently located at the link below. This will allow you to read through the messages off-line
Yüklə 5,47 Mb.
|
707 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 7:35am Subject: RE: Hang in there, Diane! > Diane, >
> I'm helping Ellie moderate her list so your e-mail came to me this morning. I have been redirecting for 3 months now and have found it the only sure fire and most efficient way to deal with my own inner demons as you so plaintively describe them in yourself. Believe me, I know what you're going through. I was on Prozac for 2 years and the Zoloft for 8 years before I finally weaned myself off those drugs. >
> First of all, it's good news and bad news. The bad news is -- you feel like you're going crazy; the good news is -- you feel like you're going crazy. >
> So either way, it's not a matter of good or bad; it's simply an objective fact that you are experiencing. And what you are experiencing is a series of what Ellie calls "detox crises." (Be sure to read Ellie's short pamphlet at least on her nyu website) Your brain has been trying to detoxify since childhood, when you were unable to express justifiable anger at whatever people caused you harm and pain. As an adult, especially under the deadening influence of antidepressants, and now as you describe, the withdrawal from Paxil, your repressed anger is demanding to be finally expressed consciously. > It may be difficult for you to realize that anger underlies the feelings of going crazy, the nightmares, the crying spells, etc., but it does, and that is the amazing simplicity and power of redirecting anger. > All you need do is simply entertain the idea that someone in your past, almost always a parent, did something to you, whether deliberate or inadvertent, that caused you to feel pain and you became angry about it then, but for whatever reason your justifiable anger was suppressed by that caretaker adult. Even if you can't remember the details, it doesn't matter. > The next time you feel like you're going over the edge, as I have felt many times, stop yourself and start asking the following questions. (You can ask them silently in your mind, or even speak them out as if you were an actress on stage) > > "Who did this to me?" > > " Who is responsible for making me feel this way?" > > "Why did you hurt me like this?" > > Even if you can't recall who it was exactly, realize that it had to be someone and simply make a good guess. Start with your mother. Or your father. What matters now is that you start with someone, anyone, even if you feel you're faking it. Eventually, you will get the hang of it, but right now, make the first confrontation with that person in your mind. Say something like: > > "Whoever you are, I am angry at you for making me feel this way." > > "Why didn't you let me express this anger at you, when I was a child? > When I was a baby? > Even when I was a fetus?" > > "How dare you do this to me! > "You are making me feel crazy now and I want it stopped! > "Get out of my life! > "Get out of my brain! > "Begone!" > > Just recite those lines as an exercise at first and see if you are not calmed down and brought back from the edge. > > You gave a strong reason for your predicament when you mentioned that your husband and father of your 6 children recently abandoned you. I would be willing to bet that your father abandoned you and your mother, perhaps not physically, but I'm sure emotionally -- at least you perceived your father to have abandoned you. That's why, when you became an adult, you chose a husband who would abandon you just like your father did. > If so, then you were angry at your father then and couldn't express it, so your brain became toxic and would put you through constant periodic detox crises like these you describe now in order that you would feel the anger at your father. But the problem is that the symptoms you describe right now are far removed from feeling anger. Instead, you feel fear, you feel terror, you feel anxiety, you feel guilt, you feel self-pity, you feel everything in your soul except anger. > Well, the way to feel the anger is simply to start the redirecting process. Try those lines out that I gave to you above. Repeat them over and over again, until you feel you can make up and speak your own lines. > > It's important to realize that when the anger comes out and builds and builds, you may find yourself cursing your parents, even cursing God. Don't worry about that. Yell at them. (I scream into a pillow at them so the neighbors won't hear me and call the police or something. Beat on your bed; punch a pillow. Just let the anger flow out as it's wanted to all these decades since your childhood). > > Realize that you are not getting angry at them personally; you are simply getting angry at their toxic minds, their emotional disease. It's very possible that you had parents who really loved you and had no idea that their own repressed anger issues were affecting you so terribly. That is the beauty about redirecting. You do it alone and in private, and you are finally healing yourself the natural way. Your brain knows how to heal itself and right now the only way it can heal you is by literally driving you crazy until you can recognize the anger as the motivating factor underneath all those crazy feelings, crying and nightmares. Believe me, as soon as you start redirecting your justified and suppressed anger back at those people in your past, you will start completing a cycle or circle of healing. You will no longer be identifying yourself with your feelings of craziness and anxiety. Let your redirected anger guide you out of this present detox crisis and you will be amazed at how quickly your brain starts detoxifying -- with you in control. That's the key. You are now taking charge of the detox process yourself, so your brain no longer has to drive you crazy in order to detoxify. You take over that job yourself by redirecting anger and you thus will regain control over your entire life. > > I hope this helps. Let me and Ellie know how your first steps at redirecting go. > Hang in there, Diane! > Tom Mellett > Franklin, TN 708 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 7:38am Subject: Re: Anger vs rage > Dear Ellie, > Can I chime in on the anger issue of AA? I have a similar problem with my mother. She caused me a lot of hurt, albeit unknowingly 95% of the time. I try not to be too rational when I 'detox'. I don't find there is any benefit over 'beating myself up' over whether or not I should have been hurt or not. I find my hurt or anger was engaged by a situation witch wasn't strictly rational in itself - so trying to be rational when detoxing defeats the purpose for me. I don't think the way we feel hurt has anything to do with analysis of a situation or rationale, so I push the analysis of the situation aside. I understand that it will be easier to see things clearly after this is all over. - CG http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety
>
> I have 2 questions about food addiction: >
> You say post flood people are naturally attracted by raw food. Is it your personal observation or simply the consequence of your encouragements on this list? Do you know some post flood people who don't eat raw food? Nobody in my primal group (including my therapist who is post primal) eat raw food. >
> I used to be a sex addict and since my diet changed to raw food, I am a food addict for 2 years. My thoughts about food are poisoning me during all the day (and also in my dreams). Do I have to mentally redirect each time I think of food (very often)? if these perpetual thoughts are detox crises, I don't really feel any anger coming beneath... CF I personally had switched to all raw before I was post flood. There are people post flood who don't eat all raw food, and I don't get detailed responses, but one person told me she began to get quite sick everytime she had any non nutritious food. When post flood the nervous system is likely to reject non nutritious food, ie cooked and processed. Janov talks of this with his post-primal people. Maybe the people in your group including the therapist are not yet post primal. People who use the self-help measures become post primal, ie post flood, faster. I wouldn't worry too much about still being addicted to food. For me it was the last addiction to go, and I thought a lot about food even during the muddy basin period. It was a good year or so post flood before I stopped thinking about food. You could try to redirect when you crave food, by just saying "It's your fault I'm still an addict" Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 710 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 8:56am Subject: Love/Hate Some Biblical support. This way of recovering has been around for 2000 years...longer...in the Psalms it is written, "Be angry and do not sin" The NT word for sin is hamartia, an archery term meaning "to miss the mark"... Wrong Neuron!...misdirected anger! "A time to love... and a time to hate" From Matthew 10: 34-36 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother....And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." And from Luke 14;26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple" I interpret this as hating the sickness, not the soul of these people. And when post flood we can love our enemies and "do good to those who despitefully use" us by offering them a way to recover. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 711 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Sep 29, 2000 6:20am Subject: RE: Redirecting against the loved ones > Hi Ellie >
> I have been seeing a few recent posts where they had expressed their hesitations about redirecting towards their parents. I would like to share my experience here. >
> One day I returned home from work and my wife greeted me in the usual way, just the formal one with no love or passion. Till then, I had done redirecting against other abusers such as friends, colleagues and supervisors. Even though my wife had made me angry on many occasions, it never struck me that I need to release those angers too. That day, I went upstairs and closed the door and started redirecting against her. After 30 minutes, when I came down, she was really excited to see me and very friendly and happy to talk with me. I could see the difference that my redirecting has made in a few short minutes. From that day, I never hesitated to redirect against my family members because immediately it improves the relationship. >
> I am used to do 'forgiving my enemies' as Jesus teaches at various occasions in the Bible. Sometimes, I could not forgive some persons for unknown reasons. When I redirected against them, immediately the forgiveness came on its own. As you often say, as I work through all my suppressed angers, maybe one day, I will get to taste the 'unconditional love' flowing from my heart towards everyone. >
> I have a question to ask you. I saw in various mails, saying that because of their toxicosis, they got married to a abusive partner. When they become post flood, what will happen to their relationship? How their abusive relationship will change? Has there been any good solution other than divorce or death? >
> Another quick question: Your pamphlet says that 'avoiding stimulants, sugar, bread, and milk products may help prevent future depression and nervous symptoms'. Does that include raw milk and raw milk products too? I thought in general, raw foods expedite detox. ER I'm pretty sure Jesus had his anger at all those authorities, he called them hypocrites, etc, etc, before he was able to say on the cross, "Forgive them Father, they no not what they do." Hopefully when one partner recovers the other will also. If a partner is abusive the relationship may not last and although the healthy partner will not feel lonely, he or she may find a new partner. Janov talks of post primal people who marry more for companionship. My project on the Internet has not been around long enough for me to know what happens with post flood people. Whether a relationship will last if only one partner becomes post flood may depend on how healthy the other person is. There is a lot of debate on whether we are adapted to milk other than human. I personally tried raw goat milk cheese and when I stopped my body went into a detox, but that may have been because it was somewhat processed. I have also heard people talk of raw milk's sedative effect, and that makes me suspect. I can't get it in NYC, so I haven't tried it. Ellie
> http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 712 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Sep 29, 2000 6:23am Subject: An innocent child > HI > I was brought up by strict catholic parents, who always believed that we should (my brothers, sister and I) be seen and not heard. In fact we was not encouraged to talk to our parents about anything other than what they wanted to hear. At 14 I had rebelled somewhat, nothing incredibly wrong, just usual teenage stuff, my parents saw this as me "going astray", so they decided to put me in the care of the local authority. Whilst in their care (local authority) I did become somewhat of a delinquent, and ended up in trouble with the police on a number of occasions. When I became old enough to leave their care, I did (17). By the time I was 19 I had decided that who I had become was someone that I was not proud of, so I decided to leave my home town and make a fresh start somewhere else. I also decided at that time that I would prove to my parents that I was "worthy" of their approval, so to this end I stayed away from them and lost all contact, meanwhile I gained good qualifications and good employment. > > When I was 29, I decided that I had done enough to be able to contact my parents again, and hopefully they would be proud of who I had become. However when I tried to contact them they had moved. Eventually I found an Auntie of mine. I got her telephone number and phoned, somewhat excitedly. However she gave me the news that my father had passed away!! This hit me very hard and for a while I contemplated suicide, even to the extent that I thought of ways that I could do it that would make it appear an accident so as not to upset the people that knew and cared about me. Obviously I did not carry through with this, thanks to a really good friend (who I am proud to say has now become my wife *smile*). > > During the time that all of this was going on, understandably I went through a big depression with panic attacks. Luckily I managed to get over the depression in a 6 month period. 4 years later I had another bout of panic attacks, this time they were worse, but without the depression. > > During my time in local authority care, I was a very bitter and angry individual, this seemed to go when I moved and started a new life for myself, but since learning of my father's death, I have been very easily angered, sometimes for no reason. I seem to direct this anger at the people that I love most in my life, and it is beginning to be a real problem. I know after I have calmed down that the anger is unjustified, and I know that I should be able to control this emotion that is within me, but to date I have been unsuccessful in doing so. I am so desperate to try and find a way of controlling this emotion... My reason for writing is this, I am looking for any advice that you may be able to offer me that may help me with my anger problem... ES Hi, You are in the right place to resolve all your issues and be free of your suffering. Please print out the Welcome page and the article, The Biology of Emotions, read the other articles suggested in the Welcome message, and begin to use the self help measures as described. You will see how the list works when you begin to read the Archives. There are two of us who moderate the list, so when you reply to any post on the list you will reach both of us and may hear from Tom or myself. We may reply to you off the list or send some of your comments with a reply to the list depending on whether we feel it would be supportive and helpful to the entire list. I identify with the 'children should be seen and not heard' About your comment, "I know after I have calmed down that the anger is unjustified," Your anger is always justifiable but unconsciously misdirected, and the self help measures are a way to release and redirect this anger back to your parents and other past abusers, including those church officials who taught you the mea culpa stuff. No guilt allowed here. Guilt is anger turned inward and needs to be redirected. When you are post flood your anger will be mild and appropriate. You were and still are an innocent child, who deserves peace of mind and a full and happy life. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 713 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Sep 29, 2000 7:06am Subject: The Archives If you are having trouble finding the Archives go to: http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety and click on Messages. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Fri Sep 29, 2000 7:22am Subject: Mean and controlling > Ellie, I just joined the list and thought I should introduce myself. I have been depressed for a long time. I am trying to read through the materials but am having trouble concentrating on it so I am just taking little bits at a time. I am married to a man who is mean and controlling. Being here with him day after day listening to his constant insults and put downs is depressing. I am thinking of taking a couple of weeks to get away from him to clear my head and practice your techniques. I feel so trapped here. My relatives have emotional problems too so going to stay with them isn't an option. I think about going out and applying for a job. I haven't worked outside the home in about a year. I have been working at home as an artist and I do quite well. I have been so depressed I haven't painted anything in about 3 weeks or so. When I was in college, I worked with a therapist and I expressed quite a bit of anger etc about my parents and growing up. I did feel better getting it out. >
Since I have been away from college I have been isolated here with my mean husband and just go in and out of deep episodes of depression. I have years of pent up rage and anger towards him. HT We tend to marry people who were like our parents. Even if you don't recall any childhood abuse, your parents no doubt caused you to suppress your justifiable anger, and that was 'mean and controlling' on their part. It would be great if you can get away and get into the self-help measures. Your creativity and artistic talent will thrive when you are post flood. NS, who is post flood and an artist, is now publishing a book. Ellie
http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety
The Archives are open to the Internet and Big Brother is watching. I hope Big Brother will join us, but this also means your posts are public information. If you wish to contact us reply to any post, but if you do not want your comments posted be sure to write DO NOT POST when you reply. If you don't mind that we post your comments to support others be sure to eliminate names and specifics. I cannot be responsible if your identity gets out. I am over the hill for a new career, but some of you are young and may need to protect your privacy. If you have any posts in the Archives you would like deleted send me the number of the Archive. And if you are getting financial support for disability I would not run and tell them you are well, post flood is not a sudden cure. The Biblical quote for this is when Jesus healed the leper, he said, 'See thou say nothing to any man.' If you are having trouble finding the Archives go to: http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression- Anxiety
Ellie>> ------------------------- If you can't click on messages, go directly to this URL http://www.egroups.com/messages/Depression-Anxiety Tom 716 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Sep 30, 2000 7:19am Subject: How often to redirect .. there was childhood abuse from my parents. I was also teased and tormented all during grade school by my classmates. I am going to get started today. How often should I do the mattress beating and writing, etc.? Try to redirect whenever you have excitatory nervous symptoms as listed in the article. If you can get to a bed, it's good to get as physical as possible. See the list of ways to release anger in the Welcome message. Search the Archives for the Welcome message if you didn't save it. I think it's 661. If you can't get physical do it mentally in your head even if you have to do it quietly by just saying to those voices in your head, "shut up" The important thing is to recognize those excitatory nervous symptoms as detox crises, ie when the brain is trying to detox neurochemicals that store the repressed anger. But if you can't do it each time you are in a detox crisis, don't worry, you will get plenty of future opportunities. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 717 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Sep 30, 2000 7:30am Subject: A word of hope > The first week was definitely worth suffering, but it was rather horrendous with headaches and fevers and the feeling that abuse was literally seeping out from my brain every minute of the day. My eyes watered and my head ached. >
> However, one indication I had of the 'doability' of the redirection was that I totally stopped my antidepressants without trouble. Normally, when I go without for three days or so, there emerges a severe trough of depression. No such occurrence this time. There was grief and sadness, but the feelings of self-destruction did not emerge. >
> I feel much calmer, my thoughts are no longer obsessive - I don't find what I was psychologically addicted to before attractive now - not at all. I still have a large reservoir of anger to draw from. But in the face of those memories I no longer feel helpless!! >
> To celebrate my impending recovery, I went and bought the most expensive floor standing (I.e. on a spring) punching bag I could find. It is easy now to redirect. I have found the root people of my abuse: my mother, father and brother and I don't seek to widen that group anymore - I find a clear pathway from all of my present traumas back to them. This makes it easy to redirect. A tip! If you do weights, for each repetition (say a bench press) think of one of your abusers, it is amazing how much power and anger you put into it then. Be inventive, work the techniques into your routine; especially exercise. I had a wonderful half hour trimming a creeping rosebush - boy did I go to town then!! >
> I would also like to say that having people to write to has helped enormously. Communicate about what you are doing as much as you can. >
> Thanks all! CG Hooray for you! Thanks for sharing this miracle. Ellie Yüklə 5,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
|