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290 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Feb 27, 2000 7:10am Subject: Getting your brains back Kathy was the first to find the article on the Internet--about a year ago--and use the self-help measures. When she was post flood she went for her Masters' degree. > Dear Ellie, I'm fine...much happier and the grief has passed. My sister (her twin sister) and I are living together and it's going really well...lovely family life. I got distinction for my Masters degree and I now have a research and teaching job...I may do a Phd. love Kathy x Dear Kathy Good to hear. Glad the grief has passed. I think one reason it may have lasted so long for you is that I had done the switch to raw food before I used the self help measures, and while I had a long adjustment period I didn't have a lengthy grief period. It's two years for me now and I still occasionally redirect with my aunt. I started to feel a bit guilty about something yesterday--turning some anger inward--but soon realized I was falling for some comments my aunt made, and mentally redirected to her...no more guilt. Congratulations on the distinction. Ellie
Are you post-flood? Date of birth 10/16/43 Female On what date did you begin the self-help measures. Fall of 1999 Do you pound on a bed and redirect anger while thinking of past abusers once a day three times a day more often Probably at least once. If you are not near a bed do you mentally redirect anger toward past abusers once a day three times a day more often I do the mental redirecting at least once a day, maybe up to 3 times. Do you attend 12-step meetings. No Do you attend Adult Children of Alcoholics. No Do you use other self-help measures. I do readings that help my understanding and releases. I work out daily. I have an 'inner practice' that is excellent at tuning into universal energy and I know that helps. I eat close to a raw diet and undertake cleansings of intestines, liver from time to time. And occasional fasting. I listen to music and watch films that release tremendous unexplained sadness. Are you in therapy. I was and for the most part it was a disaster. I get better results working with Elnora and with a best friend. Do you take antidepressants. No Do you take tranquilizers. No What is your pulse rate on awakening (average over several days) ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------- Please write an approximate date when you noticed the following. Anger when intense is easily redirected mentally toward past abusers. I think that is beginning to happen now and in recent past. Feel 'high' after releasing anger. Not sure about this one. Have periods of depression. I rarely have that now. I get period financial fears and that is still unresolved yet getting to the other side of it. Have a heavy or drug-like sleep. Rarely. Often feel your heart pounding Rarely. However, I feel I have a weak heart from the eating disorders and it's getting stronger. I do occasionally feel a pounding, it comes as a surprise and it feels good however I always wonder if it relates to my' heart disease'. Frequent headaches, sweating, or fever. I still get headaches, not so bad, last week for 7 days with mini-breaks in between. Caffeine withdrawal is a part. Still have not licked that. Pounded on the bed less often. Never did that. Mood swings less intense and less often. I would say much less however I am more conscious and that mediates the swings. Intense feelings of grief and crying. Those come up more often now, watching films or thinking of my father, or seeing pictures of Lake Placid, his former home and burial site, and thoughts of my parents marriage. Great sadness sometimes. If plans don't work out, can find something else to do. Much better with that. Much more detached. Feel uncomfortable watching violent TV programs. Yes, more and more so. Feel friendlier and interested in people, even strangers. Yes, much more and more compassion. However, I still have burnt bridges with a brother and sister-in-law and a former therapist and woman from the therapy group. I feel it's unresolved and redirect the anger when those obsessive feelings and thoughts come up and that is beginning to work. Enjoy people but feel content alone. Yes Seldom feel guilty. Getting much better with that. Only recently identified the 'guilty' feeling. Seldom have resentments. That is definitely subsiding. No longer think or act compulsively. Much less. May feel sad, but not depressed. Yes, closer to that paradigm. Work and study efficiently, concentration and memory good. Yes, that is increasing. Fall asleep more easily and no longer have a heavy drug-like sleep. OK Can stop thinking about something, i.e. change the subject in your mind. Am working on that and getting better. I also find it good to let the mind run out the tape plus I need to learn to talk to my friends for their input and not dwell on things alone. Have fewer scary dreams. Dreams are getting slightly better. Less weirdness on my personal obsessions and shortcomings. Dreams make it clear what to work on. Being in the moment. Can flash back to childhood events, even traumatic ones, without emotional pain. Relatively yes. Anger is not intense and is mostly about current situations. My anger has been so underground and it's only recently I've been able to identify my feelings and the many faces of anger. I was angry before but didn't know it. My sense is that after the 'therapy blowout' in May, my anger got exposed and now with your work I am redirecting and the til is getting less. Life is simpler with less need for activity. Life is simpler and I'm a very active person, however I take time to go walking daily, workout alone, or be with myself. I think I am less 'overactive' however I have to watch this. I'm a very athletic, movement, activity oriented person however I do like my layback moments and I take them. I'm learning to get more sensitive with that. Posture is relaxed. It's becoming more so. I can feel when I go into my old tense posture and transition into the relaxed. My breath focus is better. No longer crave stimulants or junk food. I am still stimulant addicted and scaling down. Coffee in mostly out of the picture. I do black tea 1-2 bags daily or green tea. And maybe one choc bar a week. It's a mental crutch and a reflection of staying up too late and getting too little sleep. I'm working on that now. Diet is mostly natural foods. Yes. Seldom have a cold or other acute disorders. Right. Seldom feel your heart pounding. This is new and infrequent yet feels good because I never felt my heart too much before. Then pain with the eating disorder and occasional pounding. Stopped medication. No meds and occasional aspirin. Stopped therapy. I work with Elnora and am apprehensive about starting with anyone else again. Would like to do authentic movement and dance therapy. On what date would you say you identified with-not all-but most of these. Pretty much recently, in last few months. Some like diet for a long time. Now what is your pulse on awakening (average over several days) I don't know. Don't have a fast pulse, was almost too slow, now is a little faster, more balanced. Will check it for a few days. Thanks for sharing this with us. Sounds like most of the repressed anger is out. It might help to do some more redirecting while you exercise. Ellie
293 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Feb 27, 2000 7:38am Subject: Re: Reclaiming intimacy > Ellie, I have been redirecting for 15 years and have learned something new every day about the process, I recently had an episode that was quite unusual, I am reluctant to speak of it, but it might help someone else, ie; all past abusers. When I was around 8-10 years old I was friends with a girl who lived a couple of houses from us, I spent alot of time at her house because I hated being home berated, but now I realize, and I've known all along I was being more abused by this girl, she was my age, the scenario, I was poor and in a small town wanted desperately to fit in, my mother made me wear same dress 3 days in row to school, you can imagine the ridicule I received, our city has inherited riches, so we have alot of snobs, this girl I'll call L did fit in with all the rich kids and she befriended me, I never thought of it as abuse until probably 10 years ago, but didn't realize the anger or the control she had over me. Now understand I stayed at her house more than my own, she sexually abused me, always when I was a sleep, I'd wake up and she would be messing with me, she threatened to ruin my life if I told, so I had to let her do whatever, I remember keeping my eyes shut really tight. >
> Anyway, she has been shopping in my store for about 2 years, only occasionally, I sometimes have thought about what she did to me, it had never become an issue ever, we just grew apart in later years, and we moved in about 3 years when I was 11, so the abuse quit, and I quit spending night with her. On December 23, she wrote me a hot check for merchandise, her husband is a police officer. Excuse me bad check is 'theft by check', I waited til 2 weeks ago to turn it over the County Attorney, (how embarrassing for her, I hope), I wrote her letters asking her to come in and take care of, no response. I had a dream where I was a young girl and someone was doing to me what she had done, guess this other person in dream represented her, when I woke up, I knew exactly why I had not turned her check in for enforcement. Now during the course of the 2 months of holding the check I never thought of this incident. And didn't understand why I was not doing anything about it, I kept thinking she is stealing from me -am I going to just let her. She was still controlling me and I got angry that morning of the dream, and had such sweet relief, I trodded off to the prosecutors office with a smile. I know this girl was sexually abused by her father, she developed early and wore a bra, I remember she sat in her dads lap all the time with bra and panties on and he would caress her in a way I thought was inappropriate, I knew then he must have, I can remember thinking that. Now this is the clincher, I have never been a touchy feel type person, but in the past few weeks, I have been, I remember being at my husbands mothers funeral and meeting all these people and not just shaking their hands, I automatically would caress their other hand, in a comforting way, I noticed this as this is not like me, and for weeks, my husband has said what has gotten into you, you never used to want me to put my hand on you, and now I notice I just automatically rub his neck or shoulders. Is this weird or what. Who would have ever thought. I think when I was little I vowed to myself, 'no one will ever do this to me again' and I shut out intimacy to a level that I could get by with but it was me that was being robbed from by not allowing someone to comfort me with patting of the hand or a simple stroke of love and caring, but I couldn't help it, I just wanted to run all these years . Sally Thank you...inspiring story. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Feb 27, 2000 10:17am Subject: Rapid relief Hello Ellie, 5 days on self help program. I am feeling better. Before, I was taking 3 mg of bromazepan every day and now was 22/2 - 0
23/2 - 0 24/2 - 0
25/2 - 3 mg - depression at night 26/2 - 0
27/2 - 0 until now I am redirecting to my mother and brother. I am on Prozac but only taking 10mg / day (was 20). I am confident I am better day by day. Juan
> #1.. I think I'm getting a fraction of distance (necessary for me to detach, be objective, make conscious choices) away from the love/pain scenario I've been playing out my whole dating life. I think it's from redirecting. I want to say something about therapy/ therapists. I get stuck big time. I trusted her & went along w/her process. For 6 mos I felt supported. Apparently she did not think I was moving. She became confrontational. It was upsetting, I felt betrayed. I did not go back for weeks. She described her work as: supporting the truth (soul) not the ego. One time when I was crying, she stopped me, & told me to breath deep that I was not breathing deep enough. I heard this as criticism. besides, I thought what difference does it make where I'm crying from.. Of course I'm crying from my head that's where all the mean thoughts are. I'm in the crying all the time stage again. ugh. I would love to hear more on guilt. Laura I wouldn't trust any therapist who is not post flood. How dare she tell you how to cry...I'd sure redirect some anger to her. A good book you might get is "Cure by Crying" by Thomas Stone.
Ellie
> 296 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Feb 28, 2000 6:12am Subject: Guilt-self hate I'm having a lot of trouble w/guilt. my parents w/drew themselves from me if I didn't do as I was expected, but I didn't even know what was expected, so I walked on egg shells. Additionally, they used sarcasm, to humiliate & tease me. So now the sarcasm I get into w/this guy, I feel guilty. I don't think he even likes me, so distant. like my parents. no talk. no problem solving. if it works it works if not, not. krazy making for me. we were intimate 5 mos ago, gradually he took all the attentiveness away-my biggest fear.. w/my parents. I would loose them if I did or did not... I feel guilty for being sarcastic w/him...I hate myself for doing it & not being able to stop & afraid of being left, like in my family. I hate them for doing that to me...for teaching me to be mean, for being mean to me...for icing me out. I feel so angry, sad. Laura Sounds like what happened to Alice Miller...withdrawal by parents as a form of discipline. I hate them for what they did to you. You are innocent of sarcasm...Keep turning that hate away from yourself. This man is triggering the rejection by your parents, no wonder you feel angry, keep redirecting to your parents. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Feb 28, 2000 10:09am Subject: The pain will go away > thanks for your support re: therapist, guy/rejection. boy o boy it helps! I have 'Cure By Crying' thanks for telling me about Alice Miller & her exp re: withdrawal. my emotions seem endless. flooding seems endless. my hatred toward my family seems endless. This morning I'm finding myself rocking like I often did as a kid. the internal pain is excruciating. the self induced pain is unbearable unthinkable, and promotes self hate. too bad, too sad. Think I would be less triggered if I were able to stay away from people who reject me. hope some day this will happen. today felt suicidal. just reading what you wrote quelled the tide. I'm so happy I could access this, this am, maybe there is a god. Laura Keep turning that self hate toward your parents and all the substitute parents (in those abusive relationships). I hate them all for this pain they caused you. I spent close to 60 years in relationships where I was abused. And it was my parents fault I suffered the pain in those relationships. Sadly, it was what I had to do to set a stage for redirecting. Rejection is a great healer if you turn the hurt into anger and redirect it. I believe there is a God who wants you to be happy and free. Give em hell. 'A time to love and a time to hate' Ellie
If it's raw in its natural state and unmixed, and it tastes good, then it's instinctive eating...isn't it great...your body will naturally go to its best weight and stay there. Ellie
Ellie
- 301 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Feb 28, 2000 11:44am Subject: Accomplishments Ellie, I never saw it that way, 'if we accomplish something then they can't keep us dependent on them!", that's why all my accomplishments they treated me different than my two brothers, who did not accomplish things. Amazing insight, thanks, sally I suppose some accomplishments they would like, if they mean more focus on them. I think these same parents might like it if their male children make a lot of money and dote on them. As a girl my parents definitely wanted to keep me as a dutiful daughter. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Feb 29, 2000 6:22am Subject: Dealing with parents post flood Re: boys becoming successful and doting on parents. > Ellie that is exactly what is happening with my parents, my brothers are doing exactly that, doting on my parents, makes me nauseous actually. I have to chuckle a little that I'm the last man out with them, so to speak and I am better off than anyone. You know I cannot imagine life 'with' my parents now, I would not even put myself through the torment, just think more of myself than that, I care about my well being for a change. Sally Nauseous? good...throw it up. :-) Ellie > I am so settled and happy without them, then I hear all this stuff about importance of families, and I think they have got to be kidding, at Christmas, all the articles are about how nobody wants to gather together with their families, and all the depression that comes with the season, I can only derive from that that it is torture for everyone, I'm free not to have to do that. >
> Sometimes I feel like a fairy princess who has just met her prince charming, have everything I want in life, and it came with much painful business of getting to wellness. >
> I actually smile at that word 'dutiful' daughter, cause that is what I was, feel like a justified rebel, wonderful feeling of freedom. > I'm glad to finally understand the problem with my brothers, and why the difference. Sally I was the dutiful niece (my aunt became my mother substitute after my mother died in my early twenties) and I flew out for all holidays to be with her. When I became post flood I confronted her codependency. She didn't speak to me for a while, but then I reached out to her on the phone. Now we have a pleasant phone friendship. I never visit her. I tell her it would be a hardship for me to travel anymore with my bad arthritic hip and the way I eat means I would have to carry most of my food. Sometimes she slips in a comment about how my cousins are so attentive or that if she were me, she would want to visit. Then I tell her again that I feel hurt by those remarks, especially after I was the one who helped her through all of her major crises. I tell her she is not thinking of me when she makes these remarks. She gets the message and we are again good phone friends. I know she doesn't really like my toxic mind theory, but she enthusiastically supports my sending the pamphlet to prisons, ambassadors, etc. I think she is just glad I'm not trying to convert her anymore. She's 97 this year and the best thing I ever did for her was to stop visiting and let her rely on the good care and friends she has at her elegant retirement residence. I'm not suggesting everyone confront their parents, it may not work since some are sicker than others. My aunt is on an antidepressant and feeling pretty good emotionally. I also don't live nearby, so it's easy for me to avoid visiting. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Feb 29, 2000 9:26am Subject: Re: Dealing with parents post flood > Ellie, you know I remembered something when you said that about what your aunt used to say about other people their attentiveness, so those comments are they meant to 'prod' us to better works in their behalf. I remember my mother just not that many years ago, she'd brag on my cousins wife, her sisters daughter in law, how she is soooo wonderful, how she has such ambition and drive, how she goes over to her house all the time, etc., etc. There was something about all that bragging about her that would make me feel so strange, never could put my finger on it, she was putting me down, almost as a comparison. The more I learn -the less guilty I feel - and the less anger I have. Sally Your cousin's wife must be my cousin's wife (a half dead anorexic) who has a fabulous job and a cell phone in her car so she can always call my aunt on the move. I tell my aunt when she brags about this, that my cousin's wife is an anorexic and needs help and to boot is a menace to traffic. I do get my anger out anyway I can :-) Ellie
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