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743 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Oct 6, 2000 6:43am Subject: Your children > Ellie, after reading your note on the cause of mental illness being related to upbringing I feel much shame, and anger. I have a daughter diagnosed Schizophrenia, Paranoid. and a son with manic depression and history of drug abuse. I myself consider my upbringing to be the cause of severe depression, and to realize that I caused my children's illness, interferes with my "working the program". Any hints on dealing with this double trouble? MAS Try not to think about your children's problems and concentrate on using the self-help as described in the articles. Keep the focus on yourself, try to stay out of your head, and don't think when you need to release your own anger. Recognize the excitatory nervous symptoms and go with your feelings. Whenever you start to think of your children and feel guilty, recognize that guilt as anger turned inward and redirect it mentally to your own parents. YOU ARE AND WERE AN INNOCENT CHILD and are not responsible for your children's illness. Someday they may be able to have their anger at you, but it will be at your sickness, not you. Your shame is anger turned inward, and needs to be released and redirected back to your own parents, ie to their sickness. You wrote "shame, and anger". This is a good sign that you recognize your own anger, but this anger needs to be sent to past abusers, not inward. When you are post flood you may be able to pass this on to your own children. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 744 From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Fri Oct 6, 2000 7:03am Subject: A good beginning > I am aged just 22 and new to this e-group, I stumbled onto the self-help method by mistake just a few days ago. Please feel free to print this e-mail if you want, however I would ask my e-mail address remain anonymous. > Since about 19 I have had a very difficult time with relationships with women. I feel an uncontrollable jealously which can lead to depression and an incredible about of mental pain. This is very apparent for me when in work with a married lady who I have built a lot of feeling for - she is 35 years!! I have always found older women safer than women of my own age. When she even goes close to another man I get this horrible jealously come over me and mental pain (that's the only way I can describe it). This leads to depression, a lack of self believe, paranoia and aggression towards innocent parties (not violence though). >
> I read the self help article and it rang a lot of bells for me, when I was younger my older brother suffered from terrible behavioral and mental problems which often meant a great deal of verbal and physical outbursts. He on many occasions threatened to kill us or beat us up, us being myself mother and father, and often he did things like steal from me without me able to say a thing for fear of what he might do and just generally not allow any privacy of my own. There were times that I felt so angry that if I had a gun in my hand I would have shot my own brother, I am ashamed to say. I spend most of my youth in this fear. I also suffered from a great deal of mental bullying at school to add on top of that. >
> This, I am very happy to say, has all past â€" my brother now much older has changed a great deal with age, he is now happily married and nearly all of his younger behavioral difficulties have passed and he just recently got a first class honors degree in Engineering which ten years ago we would have never have dreamed of. I have a brother now - and one that I love very much and even with his problems always have. >
> All of the anger I felt when I was younger went nowhere because I could not do anything with it, directing at my brother could have had grave consequences for me and my family and even writing this I can feel the anger, often when my depression gets low I find myself crying and feeling angry towards what my brother did. After reading the article I had a few hours of utter excitement because all of the depression and problems I was having now seemed to make sense where it never did before. >
> I have started to try and release this energy and after reading my first e-mail I have a better idea of ways to do it. Just writing this e-mail has helped. I think that the self-help is the way to go for me - I have been seeing a councilor and will ask her opinion as to its suitability for me but for the first time in a while I feel positive. Regards. LP The eGroup is set up so that email addresses are private. I'm so glad you found us, and remember if you need to redirect anger toward your brother for his early behavior, it will be at his sickness in the past and for it's effect on you. When all your anger is gone, your love for him will be full time. And it's good you recognize those symptoms of paranoia and feelings of aggression toward women. These will be triggers to release and redirect anger toward past abusers. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 745 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Oct 6, 2000 8:10am Subject: Length of time to heal > Hi Ellie >
> Thanks for your information about raw food vs. SAD. I guess that I am in 'muddy basin' stage now. This seems like never ending one as I discover more & more new areas to work on every day. I am not unhappy about it, nor discouraged by the duration of it. On the contrary, I am happy about the new possibilities that I find every day in my life. Exciting, to tell you the fact! >
> How long was the first two stages in your recovery? And, how long did you redirect each day, during those two stages? How long do you redirect now (post flood)? You may do more on one day and less on another day and may not do anything at all some days. So, you can mention the average time approximately. This will give some kind of inspiration to stick to the schedule and encourage us to be patient with the time it takes. I understand that this time has no relevance to others as it varies for everyone and depends only on the intensity & the kind of toxicosis each one has. >
> I am reminded of a metaphor Ben. Franklin uses in his autobiography while explaining about a young man who wanted to lead a 'spotless' moral life. He goes to Smith with a speckled axe and asks him to make it shine well. Smith agrees to do that as long as this man will rotate the grinding wheel. After some time, this man gets weary and tells the Smith that he will settle for the speckled axe. Like that, we rotate the wheel every day and gets weary too often. It is your mailing list, which gives us the inspiration not to settle for speckled axe in our life. Thanks again for inspiring us to keep rotating the wheel. ER First, please stop thanking me. I get tired of deleting all these thankyous. Thank YOU for sharing and all the others who share their recovery. And thank yourself for your courage to keep the wheel going. I'm afraid I grabbed at the flood analogy so as to avoid trying to have everyone study and understand the biochemistry in the brain. Let me try to explain. You wrote: 3 stages: Flood (initial stage), Muddy Basin (intermediate stage) and Post-Flood (last stage). No, it is the flood and then post flood and then the muddy basin period, which can last for a good year or more. This is a periodic detoxification of toxic amounts of neurochemicals that store repressed anger in the brain. A better analogy might be a 'reservoir' of anger in the brain, and the periodic detox crises are like the opening of flood gates. So the flooding period will go on until most of the anger is gone. There really are no separate stages but I chose post flood as a goal to encourage the release and redirecting of anger. It is an arbitrary point when about 95% of the anger is gone. I was taken to task for giving the impression that this was a point of cure, which it is not, but it is a point at which depression should be gone, and I needed to use it as a goal. You'll have to blame God, not me, for setting up the healing process this way. I refer to the muddy basin as the long period after this, when there are likely to be fewer and less intense detox crises, and also perhaps some increased crying and grief. There is also a reservoir of grief. The release of anger is affected by one part of the central nervous system and the release of grief by another part. Crying may occur along with the release of anger, but often more so during the muddy basin period. During the muddy basin period your anger, when triggered, will have less and less to do with the past, and more to do with current interactions, but you will need to continue to redirect. Even when the anger is nearly all to do with current interactions you will need to feel and process your anger and not stuff it, or symptoms may recur. Even now if I stuffed anger I would get future detox crises and probably some depression. How often to redirect and how long to fully heal probably depends on the extent of toxicosis and how many triggering stresses there are in your life. The flooding has been going on all our lives but when we start to redirect more flood gates can open, and this is why mood swings can increase and we feel like we are going a bit crazy during all this flooding. This period for me lasted about 3-4 months. During this flooding stage prior to my becoming post flood, I redirected all daylong it seems, but everyone is different. It depends on the extent of stress and how often our anger is triggered. I had several rejections that led to a series of intense detox crises, and after that I had no more major eruptions. I'd say I had to do some redirecting for a year or more, but much of this had to do with more recent abusers than my parents. Now that I am close to three years post flood my anger is mild and only about current interactions. I rarely if ever need to redirect to past abusers. >Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 746 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Oct 6, 2000 8:22am Subject: PTSD- meds > has anyone had/have PTSD? > I'm recently diagnosed and I'm on Zoloft and Trazodone now. Has anyone had experience with any of these meds???????????? > Hi,
PTSD is what we all have in this group...the original trauma was in early childhood. You may have had recent traumatic experiences that triggered symptoms, but if you had not suffered from trauma in early childhood and suppressed your anger during that time, you would not have symptoms now. The group is not a place to share about meds, your doctor will be your guide, but when you recover using the self-help measures, you will be able to let go of these meds with your doctor's guidance. For now, please print out the article, The Biology of Emotions, the Welcome message, study the articles, and start to use the self-help as described. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 747 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Oct 6, 2000 1:09pm Subject: Questions Re: Frequently asked questions. Tom suggested a FAQ section, which I may put in the Welcome message and post to the list. Most questions are easily answered by referring you to the article, The Biology of Emotions. Once you understand the simple biology (it's also summarized in the Abstract) and the concept of redirecting, your body will guide you. I had only my understanding of the biology to teach me, and I know this is all that is needed for you. Questions like "What if I have neighbors," most of you can answer for yourselves, i.e. screaming in the shower, or into a pillow, or just muffling your voice. But you may have questions that are not answered in the articles, and I certainly hope you will ask them. Before you do please make sure they are not answered by studying the articles, including the scientific article, which is not difficult to understand, and you can skip over any technical sections. If any of you recall questions you had that were not answered by reading the articles please send them to me for the FAQ section. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 748 From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/depression-cause-cure/post?protectID=101233014037194190187038004248147063248048234051197 Date: Fri Oct 6, 2000 1:04pm Subject: redirecting insomnia If anyone suffers from insomnia, that is an excellent opportunity to redirect, because insomnia results from a detox crisis with excitatory symptoms so -- well -- exciting, that you cannot go to sleep. I normally sleep well, so if I wake up in the middle of the night, I know it's a detox crisis that woke me up so I immediately redirect. Also, the earlier I wake up, the more intense is the detox crisis. I find that when I wake up between 3 & 4 AM, it's a lot less intense than if I awaken between 1-2 AM. If I sleep peacefully though the night, as I do most of the time, then there was no detox crisis needed at that time. This morning, I woke up at 1:30, and therefore I knew it was to be an intense episode of redirecting and so it was. This time, it was centered in my eyes and I believe it was the next layer of the rebirthing "onion" that I have been peeling off for the last month. ------------------ NOTE: Please read the following 4 posts in the archives where I detail the above "onion layer" sequence. #670 Hurricane Detox - Sept. 3 #678 Prison motif - Sept 19 #680 Shoulders - Sept 19 #688 Atlas ready to shrug? - Sept 21 ------------------ As you will read, it started with my shaking arms, went through my shoulders and last week centered on my breathing. But this morning, I really felt tremendous tension in my eye sockets. I've always been extremely nearsighted and I wonder if that may have been a result of whatever birth or prebirth trauma I seem to be re-experiencing now. (Again, it's important to note that you don't have to relive a trauma in all its memory; all you need do is redirect the bad feelings that are associated with the trauma. Once you have redirected, then there is no longer any need to access the actual trauma experience itself. I am only guessing that the detox events of the past month for me are related to my birth because I know I was a "blue baby" -- being suffocated as I was being born. I was ready to start breathing, but the doctor was late.) At any rate, I found myself squeezing both eyes tightly shut and I know my face was contorted with pain. I've had this experience before, but this time, I decided to get mad at my mother, at the doctor who was late, and as soon as I made this decision to redirect, I could literally feel the anger flow out of the tension in my eyes and spread out to the targets of the redirecting. Again, I know my mother did not do this deliberately to me, but her behavior and even the doctor's is not the point. The point is that my reaction to this situation was anger that I had repressed back then and that created the toxins in my neurons. Actually, the repression probably came all throughout my infancy as my mother would do everything to keep me from expressing that anger: "Hush, little baby, don't you cry!" Therefore, the problem was not the single traumatic event around my birth, but the subsequent suppression of anger by Mom and the toxins that were created as a result. For this reason, it doesn't matter if your past recollections are true or not. I may be completely wrong about these recent events being are-experience of my birth trauma -- but that doesn't matter. What I do know is true is whatever bad feelings hit me NOW -- be they fear, anxiety, guilt or whatever. That's really all you have to work with -- present time feelings -- but that's enough. Therefore, don't get involved with analyzing your past or assessing blame or even assigning responsibility even if you know definitely that some caretaker of yours definitely did abuse you. Separate THEIR responsibility out from redirecting YOUR anger at them. When I finish a redirecting episode in the middle of the night, I feel very calm and within a half hour, I go back to sleep, wake up my usual time about 6 AM and usually feel pretty good for the rest of the day -- until the next detox crisis comes along. But now I don't worry about them any more than I worry about a thunderstorm coming through. You ride out the storm and soon it's over. After all, the internal detox crises are just as much a part of Nature that happens to you as does an external thunderstorm. If anyone suffers from real insomnia -- that is not even getting to sleep in the first place, be sure to redirect those feelings of agitation and excitement (perhaps extreme hyper-vigilance) and I think that when you finish redirecting, you'll sleep like a log. Tom 749 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Oct 7, 2000 6:45am Subject: Physicality of the redirection > Hi Ellie, > Still making progress. One question though, is there any link between the physicality of the redirection and the degree of detoxification. I say this because I find little benefit in self talk and more in really going for it physically. CG Yes, the detoxification crises originate in the brain, where the toxicosis is most intense, but there is some toxicosis in the peripheral nervous system also. This means if you can get physical you are sending nerve impulses all through the body and this will provide a greater clearing of the entire nervous system. I stress doing the self-talk as often as possible for people who can't go for it physically, maybe they are at work, etc. and the mentally redirecting throughout the day added to the physical when possible will speed up the periodic detox process and bring people to post flood sooner. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 750 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Oct 8, 2000 6:00am Subject: fear and jealousy > Hi Ellie, > I have gone through a tough couple of days (with my partner) and the new emotions I need to deal with are fear and jealousy. When re-reading the article one thing you say about fear is that it is difficult to recognize that this is anger trying to get out. What I am trying to understand is where the fear and jealousy began in order to redirect to the abuser. I don't know if its a childhood thing or because of my partner and our current separation. What are your thoughts? EJ It's both, but sounds more to do with childhood. If you get all the anger out at your parents you won't fear losing your partner. The fear and jealousy you speak of sound like thoughts rather than basic emotions of fear and anger. Fear can be a tight feeling in the chest e.g. when you have to confront someone, and this is a strong trigger of underlying anger. It sounds like you are referring to a mental thought, ie fear of losing your partner and the jealousy is a mental fear of your partner going with someone else. In either case the fear is a trigger, and an opportunity to redirect. But you don't need to recall specific childhood abandonment incidents to do the redirecting to parents or early caretakers. I didn't recall being abandoned to my crib until after I did most of the redirecting to my mother. It's fine if you do recall specific experiences in the past and specific abusers. For example, when I have had thoughts that I must be tight with money, I realize it may have come from the fact that my husband was a gambler and I had to learn to be very careful with spending. So, I might redirect some anger back to him. The money issue itself had little to do with childhood, ie my father was generous with money, and I needed also to redirect to my parents who caused me to get into such a relationship. But it is not essential to connect specific issues. It sounds in your situation with fear and jealousy that you need to redirect to your parents who caused you to get into relationships that are now troublesome and also to your partner, who has abandoned you if only temporarily. The fear of losing people began very early in childhood with the fear of losing our parents because we did, in fact, lose them emotionally, and we need to get angry at them (ie their sickness) for that. Try not to think about why you need to redirect when you are having detox crises, and concentrate on getting the anger out to all past abusers, and get as physical as possible, go with the pounding and yelling at all past abusers until you relax. Hope this helps. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 751 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Oct 8, 2000 6:22am Subject: First major anger redirect > Subject: My first major anger redirect. > > Yesterday I found a great longing and need for the lady I work with mentioned in my previous e-mail. Instead of trying to gain the attention of her which I normally would do I thought back to my brother who caused me so much pain, however I was sure not to be angry directly at him but at what I term the disease he suffered from. > > I found that tears started to flood my eyes and it became uncontrollable, I had to go off to the toilets and for about 30 mins I was crying heavily and punching a roll of toilet paper as that was the only thing that would not make a noise. I think I could have gone all day like this if I wanted to but I had to work. I found this would happen everytime I thought back to by youth problems so I could not re-direct as much as I would have liked. > > I suffered later with a headache and a real need to sleep but I also felt a kind of distant feeling - relaxed followed by depression in the evening. I cannot cause the same intensity if I'm not near the woman I work with, it's at its greatest intensity when she ignores me, does not give me the attention I want. > > I found it really great to let it out but don't know how I'm gonna stop myself from crying in front of others however I'm sure I will find away when I do I let you know. LP Congratulations... You did it just right and have made a great start. The headache, the need to sleep, and the depression are all signs you released toxins and are on the road to recovery. Try to redirect next time to your parents (or early caretakers), who I'm sure abandoned you emotionally long before any problems your brother caused you. The longing and need for this lady are cravings for the love you never got as a baby. It's sad that we can never get that kind of love now, but it is a dependent kind of love we crave, and when you get all the anger out, you won't crave this anymore. I know you will find ways to get it out at work, if you can't get away you may be able to do things like jab a pencil through some paper at your desk, or roll up a piece of paper and let it fly into a waste basket, or just mentally redirect by talking quietly to yourself. And don't worry if you have to stuff you anger, you will get more chances to let it out later. This is a periodic detoxification and your body will guide you now that you know what to do. Ellie
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