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823 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Oct 24, 2000 8:36am Subject: Redirecting in a group > Dear Ellie, > I have a few questions about how to apply redirecting in my living situation. I live in a community with 8 other people. A few of us have started redirecting. I notice my emotions are often stronger since beginning this process. I also am dealing with current relationship situation that evokes a similar pain that I felt with my father. [I feel afraid to express my true feelings because I already don't get the love and attention/affection I want and I am afraid I will get less if I am honest.] I have been reading the emails about codependent relationships and I know that is how we are with each other yet at the same time we do live together and I wonder what is the healthiest and most responsible way for us to integrate this work. It is impossible not to feel what others around me are going through it such close quarters. We want to start a support group, do you have suggestions? I know the work is done by myself but I wonder about how to best support each other. What about receiving each other's anger and getting reactive by each other's emotions. Should I focus on my parent's disease? Do you have suggestions? > mg
http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 824 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Oct 24, 2000 9:07am Subject: RE: projects > > I wouldn't try to push myself yet to do things that are stressful, like jobs and projects, as now is the time to heal, and heal you will! Once you realize the efficacy of this process and begin to see results, much of your anxiety about lost opportunities, etc., will give way to hope and confidence. > >Love & Joy - Sharrhan > > I just wanted to acknowledge Richard's post -- I too am a blocked creative (artist, singer, and actor). I am redirecting lots to get through this detox time. Hang in there! > > I've also been going through the whole dilemma of "Do I take on acting projects now, or go on auditions?", etc. But what I'm realizing is that I should take the time to heal now and not give in to that temptation -- for me, it is a temptation, borne out of the desire to achieve and achieve. I feel guilty when I say "I'm taking time off from acting," because I feel like it paints me as a quitter or sounds like I might never come back into the theater world. I also feel like it gives people information that I don't want them to have or know; namely, that I must be going through a big personal crisis to 'take myself out of the game' that I love so much. But I know now to take on projects would be just so I could show to others "Look! I'm okay, here I am, doing lots of projects, back to normal, auditioning, acting, doing plays, etc." It's not what I really want right now, and that's OK. It's hard for me to accept, though, since I'm so used to finding my self-esteem in those projects. > > TW
> 825 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Oct 24, 2000 9:47am Subject: Abusive relationships If you are in an abusive relationship, be careful to do the redirecting only when you are alone. If the relationship is dangerous it might not be wise to begin the self-help measures until the situation is resolved. There are hotlines for abused family members or the local police can help. There are also Alanon groups on the Internet, where you can learn the 'detach with love' principle, which can help prevent arguments and avoid abuse. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 826 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Oct 25, 2000 3:58pm Subject: RE: signs of healing > Yesterday ...I > felt the depression lift from the mid-afternoon all the way through to the evening. I was kind of shocked by this; it felt strange to feel lighter after so long of feeling so burdened down and negative. I also had this kind of mood swing after a very rough weekend; Monday afternoon I felt noticeably better, and was kind of amazed (though it didn't last for more than a few hours). (I have).. regret and shame... most likely just a sign that more redirecting is needed. TW That's right, keep redirecting. Ellie >
> I feel like the fact that I'm starting to experience the mood swings is another sign of healing and recovery. TW That's right...Ellie > > Do the self-help exercises and it will work regardless. Much like a bio-energetic teacher once pointed out to our class when discussing auras, "You don't need to believe in it". It's there whether you believe in it or not. Plants don't need to believe in chlorohphyll - nor do we. The process happens, period." TW Right again, it happens because your brain/body has been trying to heal you all your life. Now you are just helping it along by doing the redirecting. Keep redirecting. Ellie
From: Date: Wed Oct 25, 2000 8:58am Subject: Re: Where do I begin? <My problems started when I very young, I'm 50 now. I have a father who was a strict disciplinarian and showed very little emotion or love. My mom, I think was always afraid to stand up to my dad but I never thought of him to be abusive to her, I am the oldest of 4 children and I was always expected to be the "perfect role model" for my younger siblings. I was always being punished or blamed for things that were usually done by my brothers or sisters. Basically, I was the Black Sheep of the family. When I was 9 or 10 I was sexually abused by a worker who worked and lived in our apartment complex. I was always afraid to tell my parents of what happened because the response would have been...They didn't believe me or my mother's usual response was...Good for you...you probably deserved it! I had a lot of mixed feelings about myself thru my adolescence. I was depressed a lot of times but had no one that I could talk to. I finally opened up some dialog with my then pediatrician explaining that I was not a happy person and that I needed some help. My parents were called in for a consultation and it was suggested that our whole family should go for counseling. Back in the 60's it was an EMBARRASSMENT to go to a psychiatrist and my parents were very negative about going. We went for a while but aside from what little that I could open up about and contribute, no one else would. My brother actually thought that it was a big joke! After they stopped going to the sessions, I went back to my doctor and told him that if they weren't willing to work this out as a family, that I still needed help. I went to a private hospital as an out patient for about a year on my own. I still couldn't open up about the abuse. I was actually working for a pharmacy that was owned by family friends, and though I could get my meds for almost nothing, I was embarrassed to do so. I used to go to another pharmacy across town and pay regular price for the medications that I was required to take. Pretty Sad! This was at a time when I had dropped out of college was just trying to keep my head above water. I was a pretty mixed up kid...I was doing my fair share of drinking and doing a variety of drugs just to try to run from my/their problems. I have been married to a wonderful woman for 28 years...sometimes I wonder why she has stayed with me cause I have put her through so much because of my bouts of depression. On and off since 1984 I have had some serious depression periods and have worked with a great fellow at our local mental health clinic. I once had a very severe anxiety attack and wound up at the hospital. I've probably been close twice to being put into the hospital for my depression but I guess fortunately was not. I have not been treated with antidepressants for about 5 years now. They have tried just about every medication that was on the market. Either they didn't work or has side effects that I couldn't or wouldn't tolerate. I have not been to see my social worker friend for about the same time. About 10 years ago my wife had had enough of living with my depressionary bouts and almost left me. At that time I finally opened up about the sexual abuse that I went through as a child. I explained it to her, my therapist friend, and even with my parents. I'm still not sure my parents believed me! I explained, to my wife why I was so distant from many people. I really have no friends because my line of trust was broken by someone whom I knew and thought I trusted who took advantage of me. During my depressionary bouts I would pull away from everyone including her and my two children, which she was reading wrong...she didn't understand cause she really didn't know what made me tick! Recently, I resigned my job, actually 4 of us did so it was not just me, cause I/we couldn't take the pressure of my job and the BS that we were being put through. I'm in sales. I am now, with my 3 other co-workers working for another operation in the same field, furniture, and have been still been feeling very depressed. I'm having a tough time getting up in the morning, don't want to go to work...can't wait to get out of work. My energy level stinks, on my days off I usually sit around and do nothing productive. My only salvation has been that about 2 years ago I started to re-learn playing the saxophone, which I played when I was a kid. It has been the only relaxing thing in my life but I've even been lazy with that lately. I'm getting depressed again, seems it always hits me fall into winter, and I've gained a lot of weight from eating out of frustration. I think that it may be time to change my profession but I'm not sure of what nor do I currently have the confidence level that I need to do this! I do not want to go back on antidepressant drugs...CAN YOU HELP ME??? I know that I'm spilling my guts to you but I've at least learned to be open to my problems and I've always found it easier to talk to someone that I'm distant with ... goes back to my younger days and the violation of trust with someone that was close to me! Hope you can get me onto the right track again...I HATE THE FEELING OF BEING DEPRESSED!!! Thank you in advance for your assistance! Steve. _______________________________________________ Welcome Steve, You've found the right place to get you started on your own unique self-healing journey. Be sure to read first Ellie's pamphlet on what this redirecting of anger is all about as well as her longer scientific paper. Go to the main page of this egroups list and click on the links to Ellie's material. http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety Then start reading through the Archives, which are the Messages on the list by going to: http://www.egroups.com/messages/Depression-Anxiety Your story sounds similar to mine. You can read the very first post to the list I made back in June. It's #513 in the Message listing. I've been redirecting for over 4 months now and the transformation is amazing to me and especially to people I run into now who had last seen me prior to June 23. First of all, I am done with antidepressants forever. I was on Prozac and Zoloft through the 90s and I realize how much I simply "defaulted" to the drugs to take care of my depression. But those drugs only suppressed the symptoms of depression, which are actually the very events you need to experience in order to heal. They are called "detox crises" and they can take many forms -- depressed feelings, panic attacks, manic episodes, fear, terror, rage (which is misdirected anger) and especially in your case, a lot of guilt feelings and possible taking responsibility for other people's actions, which is a common form of codependency. The point is that whenever you experience these symptoms, let them be triggers for you to redirect anger at your past abusers, in your case, obviously the neighbor who molested you, but even more importantly your parents, who refused to believe you and thus failed to protect you at this critical time in your life. There is a tremendous reservoir of repressed anger in you that has been built up since early childhood and literally poisoned your brain. You already realize a lot against your father, but do not let your mother off the hook either, since she is equally involved. (The point to remember is that you are not getting angry at them personally, but rather you are getting angry at their disease, their own repressed anger which caused them to dump on you their own sickness. This is your anger and your healing that is involved, not them. You are actually redirecting anger at them in your mind because it is your mind that reacted to their behavior and repressed all that justifiable anger in you that comes out periodically as detox crises in your life. Now you can get to the root of the problem instead of merely treating the "leaves of the tree.") I realize you hate the feeling of being depressed, but now you can finally be proactive and literally root out the cause of those depressed feelings yourself, because it's your own repressed anger that created those feelings in the first place; and it is your own anger now redirected against its source, that will rid you permanently of your depression. (Please read Message #670 Hurricane Detox, #739 Fight Fire with Fire, not Water and #782 I am not my Anger for more detailed accounts of what I mean.) It's no easy task by any means, but once you start, you will realize that there is no other way. Why? Because you are doing it all yourself. So start redirecting and let us know about your progress. Tom 832 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:18am Subject: RE: Where to Begin > One of the challenges of giving up anti-depressants is dealing with friends, family and even personal physicians. I get a knee jerk reaction from my adult children when anything out of the ordinary goes wrong. They are concerned because I am "off" Lithium. I swear if I fell and scraped my knee they would attribute the wound to a lack of Lithium. (I don't know why I continue to capitalize the word "lithium".) AD I love it, and people get heart attacks because they don't take aspirin! Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 833 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:24am Subject: RE: Inappropriate Outbursts > I still have inappropriate behavior with over reactive outbursts. I went into a small enclosure to pay an "automated" parking ticket. A supervisor is on the site to help people in the use of the ATM type of machine. Someone was paying their bill and smoking in the small area designated as non-smoking. >
> I have a lung disability and reacted by shouting at the attendant and the smoker. Finally I calmed down and asked the attendant if he could help me by taking my credit card into the booth and validating the payment. I should have done this in the first place. >
> I need to sort out my redirecting to the past and my appropriate responses in the present. AD No 'shoulds' and self-judgment please. You have every right to confront the smoker, and will do it more calmly in time. 'Shoulds' are anger misdirected inward, so redirect it. Keep up the good work. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 834 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Oct 27, 2000 9:18am Subject: Anger/Mania > Last night I was redirecting very physically and intensely, and I got a flash of memory from my past. The first time I was depressed, years ago, I was experiencing waves of anger while living at home, recovering from the depression. My parents were criticizing me and triggering all of my anger and resentment towards them, and I began yelling at them, furious and screaming. It felt healthy and right, yet they called the MD who was giving me Prozac and said "He's going crazy! What do we do?" >
> He then called me and said, "You should come in for an appointment, it sounds like you're getting manic." And I thought, "I'm not manic, I'm just feeling all my anger and allowing myself to yell at my parents. Minutes after yelling at them I was totally composed and fine, and I was always very aware of what I was doing and feeling." I don't recall if he increased the dosage of antidepressants and mood stabilizers I was on, but I remember thinking, "What the hell are they talking about?! I'm not manic." And the fear that "Oh no, they think I'm manic and I'm really not, and they won't believe me because all the medical signs and arguments are against me." I knew this was not paranoia but a simple statement of fact; I wasn't manic, I was just feeling and expressing my anger. >
> Interesting in that I began to naturally redirect and express my anger and was immediately pretty much clamped down on and labeled as "manic." Before this, I had some very healthy "yelling at my parents to their faces" sessions, but my parents obviously felt too threatened and were too frightened by me feeling and expressing my anger to them, and so thought "He's out of control! Call the doctor!" All I was doing was yelling at them and throwing pillows (in directions where I knew it was safe to throw them; i.e. where they wouldn't break anything). >
> Also especially telling that I got this flash of memory last night while redirecting; I hadn't thought of this event in a long time. Certainly I hadn't thought of being accused of being "manic" in a long time, and I had read enough about psychiatric disorders to know that I didn't fit any of the profiles for manic patients. >
>TW I'm pleased you are having some clarity about past abuse. Don't worry about the labels psychiatry puts on us. When you are releasing anger there is a release of excess adrenaline, which is part of the toxicosis. This overexcites the nervous system and results in a manicky kind of high and often manicky behavior. The term mania is just a word to describe this. What most doctors do not understand is that this is part of the healing process, and an opportunity to redirect and relieve the toxicosis. In time you won't feel this kind of high, and you won't miss it, nor will you be manic. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 835 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Oct 27, 2000 9:34am Subject: RE: redirecting > I am a bit concerned about an incident. First of all I showed the pamphlet with your ideas to a therapist I am seeing for an overeating problem and ask him what he thought. He said that his experience with the idea of redirecting is that the anger can build and get worse rather than helping problems. Then last weekend an incident happened with my boyfriend where I thought he was putting me down to a stranger. I lashed out at him in front of the person and when we were in the car continued to berate him, even calling him names, something I have not done for 20 years. I am a little afraid of continuing. Can you advise me? >
> BJ Yes, the anger can build and get worse, but this is what is supposed to happen. This is what will heal you if you redirect the anger to past abusers when it surfaces. When it does, try to find a private place to vent it toward past abusers. Your anger at your boyfriend if he 'put you down' is justifiable but much to intense to have to do with this current interaction. He is a substitute parent figure for you in this incident and you are reacting to having been put down' as a child by parental figures. Next time this happens immediately try to redirect anger quietly in your mind to your parents, tell those voices in your head making you feel 'put down' to shut up, then calmly tell your boyfriend you are uncomfortable with his remark. If you can't do this, and lash out with words anyway, and then feel guilty, do some more redirecting. Guilt is anger turned inward. Keep referring to the pamphlet to see how this works and what to expect. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 836 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Oct 28, 2000 7:00am Subject: Increased anger is temporary > In reply to BJ's post, I myself I am experiencing an increased aggression from redirecting, however along with improved concentration, improved confidence, more and more happiness, return of love for my parents, relieve from depression. >
> The aggression is I'm sure just a side effect of the redirecting and can be controlled by recognizing the symptom and then redirecting some more. The thing I've had to differentiate between is the confidence to be rightly angry with someone and the effects of redirecting. >
> If you are like me and someone who tends to be quiet and suppress anger then angry outbursts may come as a surprise and you might misinterpret this as going mad. This was my first thoughts but I realized that some of my anger was just me having the confidence to be angry, which I never had before. After all anger is an emotion we all have and cannot ignore or we suffer from things such as depression. The difference to me is that when I get angry it's with more control and can be very effective. Strong decisive words making the point I want to make. >
> I am also sure that once post flood has been reached all anger I express to others will be with good reason and balanced. I wont have all the rest of my anger trying to pour out with it causing extreme rage and loss of logic although this rarely happened with me - I just got heavily depressed instead. > Paul
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