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837 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Oct 28, 2000 7:32am Subject: Temporarily over-reacting Last weekend an incident happened with my boyfriend where I thought he was putting me down to a stranger. I lashed out at him in front of the person and when we were in the car continued to berate him, even calling him names, something I have not done for 20 years. I am a little afraid of continuing. Can you advise me? BJ > BJ -- > During the period of time that you're redirecting (before you become more or less post-flood, in other words) you'll likely find yourself "acting out" more from time to time or feeling really upset. That was my experience, at least. However, the end result is a near cessation of over-reacting, and it's worth going through the temporary discomfort to get there. > Sharrhan>
Ellie
http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety
I know you addressed your note to Ellie, but I couldn't help responding also-- what amazing dreams! Yes, they are clear signs that your anger is rising to the surface to be redirected and banished. Good work!! Evocative dreams can be just as important as your conscious memories in doing work. Love & Joy -- Sharrhan P.S. Don't worry about the flat, guilty feeling. It will fade over time as you do more redirecting.
> I am working at redirecting my anger. Unfortunately, I still feel that flat, guilty feeling most of the time. I have a hard time being angry at my father, who was usually absent (both physically and emotionally) and abusive and controlling. However, I have been having dreams recently where he appears (I never have dreamt about my father) and in some way he fails me and I am very angry at him. In one dream, he allies himself with my abusive ex-husband and in the other, he hinders me. In the second dream, I need to make room for a new piano (something I've always wanted to resume), and the basement is full of snakes, turtles, etc. (my ex- husband kept turtles and my brother (who also appeared in that dream) kept lizards and snakes when we were children). I try to save the animals and release them to make the room I need, but my father is obstinate. I feel angry but very motivated in both dreams. > Is this a sign that at some level this anger is rising to the surface? >ktl
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Oct 29, 2000 9:06am Subject: Dreams > Ellie-- > I am working at redirecting my anger. Unfortunately, I still feel that flat, guilty feeling most of the time. I have a hard time being angry at my father, who was usually absent (both physically and emotionally) and abusive and controlling. However, I have been having dreams recently where he appears (I never have dreamt about my father) and in some way he fails me and I am very angry at him. In one dream, he allies himself with my abusive ex-husband and in the other, he hinders me. In the second dream, I need to make room for a new piano (something I've always wanted to resume), and the basement is full of snakes, turtles, etc. (my ex- husband kept turtles and my brother (who also appeared in that dream) kept lizards and snakes when we were children). I try to save the animals and release them to make the room I need, but my father is obstinate. I feel angry but very motivated in both dreams. > Is this a sign that at some level this anger is rising to the surface? >
> ktl Yes, this is good news and sounds like the anger is surfacing. When you awaken from such a dream try pounding on your bed with your fists and directing anger at him until you relax. And when you have that guilt, remember it's anger turned inward, and also redirect to past abusers. It's you parent's voices in your head saying "How dare you be angry at me." Remember, you are not getting angry at them in person, but merely at the memory of them and how they caused you to suppress your justifiable anger when you were little. Sounds like you need to redirect some anger to your ex-husband also, who was no doubt a father substitute for you. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 845 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Oct 31, 2000 7:11am Subject: Off anitdepressants I am off anti-depressants for the first time in 15 years and it feels so good to be able to cry. I cut off all voice contact with my father, and I'm now able to redirect better. YM Hooray for you. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 846 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Oct 31, 2000 7:45am Subject: RE: still redirecting..... > ...despite my ups and downs, though, I am still redirecting. One thing is for certain - that I will keep redirecting my anger towards past abusers, regardless of what I do with the medication and such. When I've been feeling empty, lost, scared, or sad, I've been redirecting, and when I've felt self-destructive, I've reminded myself "I'm not the one I'm angry at!!! > I'm angry at my parents for hurting me! Why did they hurt me? I hate the sickness in them that was passed down to them!" And I resent like hell that my parents are fine now and seem like they've been fine for the past 8 years or so. No one else in my family has suffered from depression; my father has small spurts of it but it never has interfered with his daily life. > > But I'm still going to redirect as much as I can when I feel my body is calling for it, in addition to working with my therapist (who is a bio-energetic therapist, and I passed your article on to her, Ellie - she was very interested) and having the medication. I don't know if I want to be on the medication for my whole life, but right now I just need to take it one week at a time. I feel like I'd rather go off the medication once I feel full relief from the depression instead of trying to go off it when in the midst of serious depression. > > TW
"I'm not the one I'm angry at!!! I'm angry at my parents for hurting me! I hate the sickness in them And I resent like hell..."
http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 847 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Oct 31, 2000 9:34am Subject: Reminder to post flood people A reminder to post flood people in the muddy basin period, which I'm finding can last a long time, maybe forever. It is still necessary to do the redirecting even though your anger will have less and less to do with early abusers, and more to do with current interactions. When anger is triggered in current interactions it will be mild. It's easy not to acknowledge it and to suppress it. If you have any feelings of being a bit down, it is likely you have suppressed some slight anger. If you had a sign on the refrig saying, "It will lift" it might be good to replace this with, "Let not the sun go down on your anger." Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 848 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Nov 1, 2000 5:02am Subject: Guilt/Shame Hi Ellie, I'm very much in alignment with your posts and ideas for breaking free of powerlessness. When we say people "push our buttons" this does not only apply to anger. This also applies to guilt and shame. Following are some phrases used (by our parents) to condition us and force us into compliance. "Positive" ("Good boy/girl") Manipulative Phrases: - That's a good boy/girl - You're such a smart boy/girl - I know you won't let me down... - Nobody loves you like I love you "Negative" Manipulative Phrases: - Can't you do anything right?! - What do you want to do, break that thing?! - Who do you think you are?! - Shut up or I'll give you something to cry/complain about?! - Quit whining! - How could you be so stupid?! - What's the matter with you?! - Grow up and take it like a man! - Don't you ever shutup?! - When are you going to grow-up and get a job?! - When are you going to grow up?! - That didn't hurt! - Stop complaining! - You should be grateful for what you do have - You can't fight city hall - Do as you're told! - Don't you EVER talk back to me!
- rejection if you don't do what they want - withholding of "love" - judgmental eye casts / brow-beating - "How could you?!" - "Withholding - I'll never _____ for/with you again! - Punishment - Go to your room! No desert! Etc. - I'll never forgive you for what you've done! Blessings, ...Dan Thank you, and hopefully when those feelings of guilt and shame are triggered in current interactions, they can be recognized as our parent's voices in our head still trying to shame us. Tell them to 'SHUT UP' Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 849 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Nov 1, 2000 5:33am Subject: Bullies and my re-direct experience so far. > I don't know if this is at all relevant to anyone but something I always hear is those who are bullied turn into bullies themselves, I now realize that this is because instead of directing the anger towards the past abuser it goes at another person. Paul Yes, I call this Wrong Neuron! Ellie > All the bullies I have known and had myself all had or have abusive home lives. Bullying is a subject that I have a special interest in as I have suffered a lot of this. I turned the anger inward at myself became quiet and shy which in later life has lead to me being depressed. Paul Yes again, Wrong Neuron! to direct it inward. Ellie >
> I have found that anger cannot and does not go away unless I do something about it. My brain is programmed to get angry and there's nothing that can be done to change that so I no longer waste time feeling guilty and let the anger out. Paul Yes, let it out and redirect it. Ellie I have to make and re-emphasis a point on anger I made before and that is that it's an involuntary reaction I cannot do anything about. Paul Yes, it's involuntary, but now we know to redirect anger, which in time can become voluntary. Ellie > I'm not sure at the moment whether I am post flood as I find that the depression comes in a waveform, at first it was every two days and now that length of time is gradually increasing. I remove depression with a redirect, this does often cause me a day of mood swings and then followed by a high and happiness. At the moment I feel free from depression and angst. I must wait and find if I get depressed but this is the most content (not high) I have felt for a long time. Paul Hooray for you. You will know if you are post flood when you no longer have major detox crises and mood swings. Don't forget post flood is not a sudden point of cure, and you will continue to need to redirect. Your anger when triggered will be less and less about the past, and milder, and more about current interactions. Be sure to recognize and process your anger in these current interactions or symptoms can return. Ellie >
> Another point I want to make - If in the redirect process, I would warn against spending too much time with groups or individuals who are suffering from great amounts of pent up anger themselves. I found it easy to jump on their bandwagon and focus my anger in the directions they were focusing theirs. This was, for me, especially dangerous in groups of people. If possible get them to read Ellie's article. Just my opinion and experience, maybe Ellie has some points on this. Paul Groups might actually be helpful to trigger your anger. Even if you still follow the group and misdirect, you know the truth about the need to redirect, and next time will be better able to redirect. The misdirecting is also involuntary, and we can only make it voluntary a little at a time with each new detox crisis. Ellie I also want to mention a thought I get, when depressed, about the redirect process. It goes ' This redirecting is a load of rubbish its does not work and I've wasted my time, what an idiot I've been' along with a feeling of no hope. It took me a while to realize that this was the anger going inward and also that this process is such common sense to me now and that society today via parents and others has brainwashed me into thinking that only bad people get angry and crying is a form of weakness. It will and has given me great strength!!! Paul You are an inspiration Paul, thank you. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 850 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Nov 2, 2000 8:03am Subject: Excitatory nervous symtpoms > hello, > I had a bad bout of withdrawal and hopelessness after a small difference of opinion with my girlfriend, about her sons` behavior, some three weeks ago. She convinced me that I was acting inappropriate and I must do something to turn myself around to save our relationship. I found your website and read and reread your article. So much made sense to me. I began therapy, one visit so far, and much that was discussed seems to me to be headed in the same direction as you have outlined (redirection). > My outlook on life is much better for these small things. I have been waiting for a crises to redirect, but none has happened. I cannot say I feel 100% better, and I do not expect a overnight miracle, but I know I could be alot more playful and happy. I think I am able to do the redirecting quietly in my head. I have urges to use marijuana but I am able to dismiss them. Phil
Please print out the Welcome message and the Pamphlet and study the Pamphlet so you can identify the excitatory nervous symptoms that trigger the detox crises. Don't wait for a crisis to happen but watch for these symptoms--they are the beginnings of the detox crises--so do the redirecting as soon as they appear. The craving for the marijuana is an excitatory symptoms and also an opportunity to do some redirecting. Rather than dismiss the urge, get mad at you parents when you crave this. It is they who caused you to have this problem. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 851 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Nov 2, 2000 8:28am Subject: Keep redirecting post flood > Hi, > I have been redirecting, now for three weeks. Usually I have one physical redirection and several quiet ones everyday. I have been incorporating more fresh veggies and fruit into my diet and have all but cut out the junk. My first week was quite intense; I would feel anxiety, anger, guilt, shame, frustration, lonely and have cravings for food and people, so I would redirect with no problem. I did quite a bit of physical redirection and some crying. I am not sure if I ever had what you would call a major detox episode. Each week the symptoms have gotten less and less. > Getting to my question: I haven't been noticing the aforementioned symptoms as much, very rarely as a matter of fact. I used to feel them throughout the day, everyday, but not anymore. I have gone through some depression (which I haven't been able to feel for 3 years due to antidepressants) and I use those feelings to redirect. I am able to look my mother in the eye and talk to her without feeling nervous. I used to feel so scared just being in the same room with her, and she would make me so angry with her guilt trips and abuse. Now I feel a certain contempt/disgust for her as a person, but I am able to separate myself from her in a way I never could before. She is still a very angry/self-destructive person and I am not sure how to deal with it, but I am amazed how my reaction to her has changed. I am still avoiding other family members, I used to be nervous to call them, see them, and I was never sure why. I just would get uneasy (feeling judged) around them. I don't feel nervous to talk to them, but right now I have no desire to be around them. They act like they care about me so much, but all they really care about is keeping a facade of happiness in this family which is very messed up. I have been doing some redirecting toward these people. > My question is: I haven't been noticing the excitatory symptoms as much, and I still want to redirect everyday/ keep pursuing freedom from all this, so is it helpful to redirect even when you don't notice the symptoms? I have been feeling a certain numbness, and with my knowledge of co-dependency, I have been dealing with people differently (not misdirecting anger) but I still can feel tremendous frustration at being in relationships with such angry people. Maybe I should just allow myself to really feel the frustration and let it get to the point where I would misdirect, then stop myself. It is just so tiring to deal with these people, and I know they will not change. Up Against A Brick Wall (?) SM Hi, It sounds like you have already broken down that brick wall and the major detox crises have subsided. But you will need to do the redirecting for a long time, and have your anger in current interactions for life. When your anger is triggered it will be less and less about your parents and have more to do with recent or current abusers. It will be harder to identify excitatory nervous symptoms and your anger will be mild. It's easy to suppress it but if you do, some depression can return. So watch for any slight symptoms. When you feel that 'certain contempt/disgust for' your mother or the frustration you mention when around angry people, do some mental redirecting and be sure to include the current angry people. If they misdirect anger to you, you may want to confront them directly. Here's a post from Sharrhan who is post flood and still redirecting. Hi Ellie! I took your advice and last night did a whole lot of redirecting, really letting it out, and finding that I was very angry at a lot of people-- (a person who claimed to be a) "healer", my brother (for thinking I'm not part of his family and he doesn't have to associate with me), another person for putting me down, and finally -- and most importantly-- all the new agers and people in the world who are influencing even mainstream society now and infecting it with the blame-the-victim ethic and the ethic that everyone deserves what they're experiencing, it's a lesson, and we shouldn't try to help them in any way. Also making people feel ashamed and guilty if they are feeling bad. I had a great redirecting session, and experienced a lot of "good grief" ;-) afterwards. I had done a little redirecting before I went to the gym, and found myself crying a bit while I was running on the track (I was alone). I haven't cried in a long time! Later, when I did the more full-scale redirecting, more grief followed. It felt good-- very cleansing. I feel my consciousness is changing a lot as I open up to how much I want to NOT be a part of this cruel, ugly, hateful world where so much masquerades as love and spiritual growth, etc., that is actually callous and unspiritual, not to mention totally illogical. And I feel the support of the "real" God and the "real" realized beings of the universe behind me as I do it, I really do. It's empowering. I slept like a baby last night. Thanks for your gentle reminders of the importance of redirecting. Love & Joy -- Sharrhan
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