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203 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Feb 2, 2000 6:05am Subject: Chemical Imbalance Ellie, in regards to Micah's post, my heart goes out to her, sounds like a replay of my childhood, please be encouraged Micah, it is not permanent. I too read that and took it upon myself to believe it was not permanent because God said we could be made well. Sally
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Feb 2, 2000 8:22am Subject: Confronting abusive behavior At Caron, where I went for a program for Adult Children from Dysfunctional Families, they taught us to confront abusive remarks from others by saying calmly if possible... "I'm not comfortable with being told I am...or whatever" I still can't always do it on the spot, but have found this useful. Sometimes I don't have my anger on the spot, but will go back later and say "I was hurt by...." The idea is to try not to use the word 'you'...which attacks people. Even if I say "I'm hurt..." people often feel they are the victim, but the point is not to get them to apologize, but to express my own anger for my own healing. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Feb 2, 2000 8:58am Subject: Post flood Post flood is an arbitrary point I've chosen when about 95% of the repressed anger related to childhood is out and the major mood swings are over. It's not meant to be a point of cure. Perhaps it would have been better for me not to choose this point, but I felt it was useful as a goal and a way to keep the focus on the need to get the anger out as quickly as possible. It fits the flood analogy and means that the major work of redirecting is done, but there is a long muddy basin period I call it--a good year or more during which there will be a need to keep redirecting, only the anger will have less and less to do with the past and more to do with current interactions. This means the desire to be liked, which is a codependent symptom, and other symptoms, like cravings, will continue for a year or so but should diminish in intensity. There is no final point of cure. And even when the anger is primarily about the current situation it is still important not to stuff it. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Feb 3, 2000 4:19am Subject: The muddy basin period > Ellie-Keep me on the list. I am using the self-help measures when I think to do it. It does seem to help although I would say that I still suffer from periods of feeling little and lack self-esteem and am awkward in social situations. (my husband says you would never know it because I look so relaxed-but inside I am not and I wish desperately to fit in---as I never did in my family) Sadness comes more easily than the anger but I know it is there because it comes out sideways often and inappropriately enough. I am eating a wholesome "American" diet and don't feel any affinity for the raw foods other that the fruits and vegetables I have always eaten. I crave chocolate several times a week but that is less than it used to be. Thanks for your words of encouragement and while I don't share much in writing I am appreciative of all who post here and get inspired by the work that all are doing. thanks Cindy Dear Cindy, I'm happy you want to stay on the list and am not pressuring people to share, in fact, I like to keep the posts short so it is not too repetitious, but I'm trying to make it a safer place by asking people who have never shared to let me know who they are. It sounds like you have done the major work with the anger, the 95% I call it and are post flood, and are in the muddy basin period after the flood...especially if you feel more sadness than anger It take a long time for the remaining anger to surface. I hope when you feel that low self esteem you can recognize it as a trigger that some anger wants out and needs to be redirected, ie low self esteem is a 'put down', anger turned inward, voices in our head telling us we're no good, and just mentally in your head talk to past abusers. I used to say to my mother mentally, 'get out of my head.' I'm sure in time you will be attracted more and more to the fruits and veggies. Ellie
on their best behavior today, thank God. Your unconditional acceptance and empathy are a God-send. Of course I'll stay on this list-- perhaps I misunderstood a post you sent a few days ago in which I thought you suggested I might want to unsubscribe soon. At any rate, I definitely want to stay in touch, and right now I really need and enjoy receiving the e-mails each day. I am wondering about this recent development: without changing my diet significantly I have suddenly lost a little weight and look about 10 years younger. Skin has improved and even hair. It seems logical that it's probably because I'm not flooded with the chemicals of depression every so many hours like I was before. - Love, Shirely Dear Shirley, That post about unsubscribing was directed to some who have been on the list for close to a year. And Kathy who was the first to try the self-help was rightfully angry at me when I first used post flood as more of a point of cure. I'm stuck with that arbitrary definition since the pamphlet has gone out to most of the world, but it is accurate physiologically as the end of the major flood of anger and it's useful as a goal, to encourage people to get the anger out. It's a point of dramatic release from depression and mood swings, so it is valid as a point of recovery from depression. Exciting about the improved health. Because you are eating raw food, I think this speeded your recovery, and now that your nervous system is functioning as it should, the changes in metabolism of foods easily explains the loss of weight and other improvements. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Feb 3, 2000 6:18am Subject: Re: Seeing Red Ellie, Shirley's situation at work sounds like a situation I once had, worked for a boss that belittled me all the time, made fun of my weight, I was 20lbs overweight, style was loose dresses, he say if I was eating something oink, oink, and I had alot of room left to fill out that dress, just belittling things, you'd say hi to him in the morning and he'd look straight in your eyes and grunt, what's so good about it, I could write a book about him. That was a period of time I had the most opportunity to redirect and get the anger out, the most detox time about some deep issues. So what happened, one day I did what I always wanted to do when a child, I walked calmly to the front, put my key on the counter, my boss standing there, and he said, 'what', I said don't you dare you sob ask me what, and if you can't figure it out, why don't you search your own heart, I clear, and I won't ever be back. You should have seen the look on his face it was priceless. I envisioned my parents, instead of getting married to the first guy who would have me, cause I felt no one would want me and it ended up in divorce 10 years later, cause he was just like my parents, dah, we figured that, right, well I should have put my key on the kitchen table at age 18 and said, dah I won't be back, go figure why, search your own hearts, that would have quieted alot of problems that came up years later. All I can say is that man kept me there by control, just like my parents, I took the abuse just like I had to my parents, I had 'no place to go', because that is what control people do. I have never been freer than when I walked out, it released something out of me I cannot explain. Esp. with the envisioning of my parents, I often say I stayed 4 years longer than I should have, but looking back I would never have put the piece together had I not stayed -Just the mere fact that you feel like your 'rights' as a person are being violated is enough to know they are the ones doing wrong and are abusive. As to being spiritual, Shirley is the most spiritual in the place, she has feelings that are open and there, not stuffed down in. Sally 209 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Feb 3, 2000 6:27am Subject: People pleasing > Ellie, in the situation of 'people pleasing or the intense desire to want people to like you', I noticed recently the thought doesn't enter my mind, will they like me, or that deep seeded desire, and let me say I have wanted free from that emotional draw for EVER. Yesterday was trying to pull in parking lot and lady with her buggy was in way, so I waited and she was fumbling, I waited and then I could pull in, went into the store came out and she was back, I walked up and her buggy was right back up there, my first thought and I am saying what I think now a days, was 'are you still here', she started laughing and then explaining, we laughed and talked a few seconds, but before I would have never opened up and said what I thought, makes for having a better life. Spent some time past weekend with some women I had never met, now that's a trick, wouldn't you think I'd really be in an 'impressive mode' wanting their approval, we were at a creative workshop as we all have business and were sharing out ideas and creations, some of them said things that we're out of place' let's just say that, I'd just say, shut up, can't say that to me and then they'd start laughing, I knew they weren't laughing at me but themselves, I can say there wasn't once I felt less than, because speaking up makes you feel equal, we had a wonderful time, so then they had freedom to disagree with me, we were so bonded by the time the 3 days were left, we all hugged and almost cried for having to leave each other's company, but all weekend long we all talked straight, without reservation, first time I had ever met these women too. I have now found out being open and honest is best way, that retreat was best thing for me, ever. Looking back I cannot imagine having been so 'frank' a year ago, I was too afraid. Sometimes over the weekend we'd say 'don't say it', or you are just a bitch, there wasn't much we didn't say to each other, one girl we had to encourage to get it out what she was feeling and when she did, you could see the liberation on her whole being and then she really got creative, all this junk clogs us up. Sally
Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Feb 3, 2000 8:55am Subject: Re: Seeing Red Send a kiss and a hug along to Sally for me, Ellie! And also, I've been wanting to pass along the information to her that I had an experience that I'm positive is identical to the one she had when she was younger, where I experienced absolute bliss and unconditional love for just about exactly one year (before my parents started to get into my head again, I think). An experience that I can only call divine Grace. -- Love, Shirley 211 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Feb 3, 2000 9:16am Subject: Another new stimuli Well isn't everyday a new day indeed. I caught myself angered today and I can pinpoint why actually. I have a good friend she is 62, her daughter, who has another gift shop in our city, a few blocks away, now mind you our city is small, 10,000 people or less. Anyway I'll refer to her as P, her daughter J didn't speak to her for almost 2 years, that's when we became friends, now they are back together. I heard from someone yesterday and again today her daughter is talking about me and the persons that overheard her in a restaurant said she J, is just jealous of me and my store, our store has made quite a statement because of good friendly service and prices. J and her husband have reputation for being snobs. Just chapped me that they would talk about me behind my back and when I see them they are so NICE, and knowing P and I are good friends, P never tells me anything about J's store, I don't ask, it's none of my business, I would hope P would not be going and telling about my store to her. Who knows. The part that I noticed some anger at is it reminded me of my mother, she always talked behind all her children's backs about the other children, that just fries me. Yes it is frying up my neurons isn't it. So I let it out and then confronted my friend P by email. Told her I was really surprised her daughter would make herself look so bad, by talking about me in public, it was a worse reflection on her character than on me and that I was sorry to hear it. I figure P is not what she pretends, as I have suspected in the past few months that she was just coming around to 'spy' and see what I was up to, I have heard some of the new things I've added to my store her daughter has too, hum, wonder how she found out to put those particular items in. P has gone with me on buying trips, do I have dumb written all over my face or what. But P wants a relationship with this daughter so badly, I wouldn't put anything beyond her stooping. Like with one of her daughters, S, I was friends with for 10 years, she also quit talking to P, and to me, cause P, confronted her drinking and drugs and she thought P was interfering in her life, and when her and the other daughter reconciled which was before J, so S moved away and when she came back. She decided she wanted to work for me, well I wouldn't let her cause of her drinking and she got mad, she stayed with P for 3 months, (marital problems in PA), and P wouldn't have anything to do with me for those 3 months and a few months after cause she couldn't she said because of S. and until S went back to PA to her husband. Sorry that is a lame excuse for not having a friendship with me. Then she came running back needing companionship, you know what I'm alot more healthy than then and don't even want a relationship with someone so sick. Does this make sense. So I am redirecting and the more I redirect the more I know I don't even want this relationship, I feel sorry for the poor soul. She is the one I wrote about earlier who always wants me to remember her birthday but always find excuse to not be around on mine, I go to great lengths for her birthday, it doesn't matter, it's just it's obvious to me, it is one sided. Sally I used to decide my self worth by the number of birthday cards I got. Ellie -
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Feb 3, 2000 9:42am Subject: The flood Elle, When I first read your article I didn't understand what post flood was, but after I did, I reread my journal of 15 years ago and I used the word 'flood' of emotions that came that week of my most significant release. It's the most appropriate word I think for what happens when the big FLOOD comes out. Sally It really is an accurate term physiologically, and the detox crises, ie the excitatory nervous symptoms, are when flood gates open periodically and release excess (toxic amounts) of noradrenaline and adrenaline from noradrenaline neurons in the brain. These build up in neurons due to suppressing anger. There is also a flood of toxic neurochemicals in acetylcholine neurons, and this flood represents repressed grief. Usually the noadrenaline containing neurons (which process the fight or flight reaction including the feeling of anger) clear out first and then the acetylchoine neurons. This is why grief usually follows the release of anger. The reason there is neurotic fear, which often signals a detox of anger, is because when there is excess noradrenaline, some of it is converted to adrenaline to relieve the toxic amounts of noradrenaline. Adrenaline doesn't belong in these neurons (it's function is in the periphery when it is released from the adrenal gland), but when it builds up in noradrenaline neurons in the brain, and then there is a detox crises, it gets released and because there is so much of it, it overexcites the heart and causes feelings of fear and panic that are way too intense for the situation. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Feb 3, 2000 9:54am Subject: Healing is ongoing. > Ellie, sometimes it takes awhile to put it all together doesn't it. As for me becoming post flood and then just staying in a standstill, maybe we could call those years of not redirecting something, since it's been 15 years after the flood now. I let alot of things grow up in that barren field. I do notice now within the 5 years of redirecting that recently since redirecting even more, that the struggle to lose weight, well I've lost 5lbs this month without making an effort and it has to be due to my new eating patterns, craving fruits and veggies, very little meat right now. Listening to the body is one of the major keys, not the desires of the outer person but inward, like I woke up this morning and immediately thought of this one person who I've been stimuli 'ed' by, and I in my mind took a hold of that thought as if it were tangible and extracted it, I could actually envision my mind as having cavities, with my eyes shut, I took this thought pulled it out and it left a cavity in my mind where water flooded in, I know it sounds strange, but I felt the lift of that anxiety of that person, I have redirected with her many times, but still it stayed, never had this happen before, maybe it was just a mental exercise. Like maybe I was seeing the neuron and the unclogging of same. I wouldn't use this apart of theory just something that happened to me. We will see in days ahead if it has any bearing on cleansing. Sally Yes, I think we've all been healing ever since we were born. The gift of the toxic mind theory is just that it can be speeded up by doing the redirecting at the first sign of an excitatory nervous symptom, which is a detox crises of neurochemicals that store repressed anger. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Feb 4, 2000 3:50am Subject: Fear, two kinds > Ellie, AHHH now I understand the neurotic fear I have fought, it has subsided the past few months. I have fought against fear like it was an enemy within, I read all the right stuff, believed all the right things, tried retraining my mind to think on good things, etc. ,all to no avail. I just couldn't get rid of this fear of failure and that God would forget me and I would end up destitute. I have redirected this anger, now after all most helpful in backing up what I have been experiencing. This is way too good. I may be free of this intense fear, the fear I HAD experienced was a gut wrenching fear that I wouldn't be able to pay my bills and God would take His hand of grace and mercy off me if I stumped my toe. We know where that false belief came from, the performance acceptance syndrome my parents projected on me. Sally The kind of fear I referred to, which is due to a sudden release of excess adrenaline, is more a physical feeling, like the pounding sensation in your chest, for example, when someone says something unkind and you feel a tightening in your chest, or you have to make a phone call and confront someone, and your heart begins to pound. This intense fear signals a detox crisis, and means anger is trying to surface. This fear we need to go through and not suppress, so as to get the anger out and redirect it. This fear is part of an excitatory nervous symptom, (an exaggerated fight or flight response) which is a detox crisis, and it's useful to recognize it as an opportunity to do some redirecting. I think the kind of fear you speak of is more a mental thinking process, which is also a signal, as it's usually compulsive worry, and concern that we won't be taken care of...or 'fear of failure', ie low self esteem, which is anger turned inward, all opportunities to do some anger work. Either way, it's good not to fight against the fear, but to go through it and get the anger out. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Feb 4, 2000 4:32am Subject: Teachers Ellie I did print out your article. I started highlighting the lines that seemed to apply to my case directly. Guess what...I ended up highlighting the entire article (under 'Self therapy' sub-title). I can't wait to pound on my 1st standard teacher!! Regina Actually I meant the short version, it can be printed out as a pamphlet...I'm hoping it contains everything people need to know because this pamphlet is going out to prisons. Hooray, give the teacher hell. My kindergarten music teacher told me to pretend to sing in a Christmas event, (she didn't want my voice to ruin her show) and I was afraid to sing all my life. Then finally in a Chant group (in my sixties) I was asked to sing alone as Cantor, but I had stage fright...so several times I did some redirecting of anger at that teacher, and no more stage fright. I have a nice voice after all. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Feb 4, 2000 4:40am Subject: Releasing anger is easy Hello Ellie, I've been on the list now for two months. I want to inform you that yes, I'm still interested in receiving your mails. I'm into primal/regressive self-therapies for a few years now. After having had kind of a manic well-being period from September to October, depression returned in November when I started to do the anger-redirecting. It's always been my problem to get to my feelings and to stay with them for some time. With your approach it's the first time that I'm capable to focus long enough on a particular feeling (namely anger) to really let go of it. I found out that releasing anger is a much easier exercise to do than my previous attempts at self-help. With those I quickly felt overwhelmed by surfacing feelings of not being loved, which was what I had been focusing on. For the time being I experience a lingering sadness that I've never felt before. That shows me that I'm finally on the right path. I'm confident that I will become "post-flood" by continuing to feel my anger and the accompanying sadness. I've not changed my diet, but can tell you that I've sometimes felt a longing for natural food and repulsion for the diet I'm accustomed to. Also the longing for alcohol subsided. Andrew Dear Andrew, Thanks for the update, and yes depression often returns after the releasing and redirecting of anger, but it will be less and less in time. The lingering sadness usually follows and is a good sign. Ellie
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