This file contains all the messages in the Yahoo group currently located at the link below. This will allow you to read through the messages off-line

17

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sun Aug 22, 1999 3:38am

Subject: Post-flood high
Yesterday I wrote: I've been saying there are no highs post-flood, but I must say I do get a high from time to time that may be related to the release of old anger. When I slap a stamp on each of l00 letters to prisons, I say to myself, 'close this place down.' I suspect this is some old anger at the psych hospitals where I was locked up for so many years. I just got the addresses for prisons in Sweden. I must say they look a lot nicer--and conducive to recovery-- than the expensive psych hospital where I did a four-year term. My husband had a Mafia friend who spent four years at Sing Sing and we used to compare notes.
From V, who I now call Valerie,
> High is good! Kids are naturally high. Maybe you're just returning to the exuberance of your childhood. YEA!!!!!!!!! Valerie
During the intense detox period people are like to feel an unusual' high' after releasing and redirecting anger. This is from excess noradrenaline that is released, and is the same kind of manicky high the boys at Littleton got while shooting up people. This manicky high will diminish and not be there post flood. I probably have a bit of old anger in me about the psych hospitals and the abuse I received in them, so I get a bit of a high when I slap a stamp on a letter to a prison. But there is a general feeling of sustained high or happy or joy post-flood, only it's not manicky. And you're so right it's the exuberance of childhood. Yea!! It's fun and I am very much like a little kid.

Ellie
18

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sun Aug 22, 1999 7:56am

Subject: Loneliness
> I spent over 60 years in relationships, either living with someone or married, and was desperately lonely. Since post-flood and for the first time, I've been living alone and NEVER feel lonely--not to say it is best to live alone, but if this is what happens for some of us, there will be no loneliness.

Ellie
Hmmm. This is interesting because I was desperately lonely all my life until the Christmas of 1996 after I got the restraining order against the ogre, and suddenly the loneliness was GONE. I don't know where it went. I had been suffering so much in that relationship, and then I suffered so much when it was over, and I also lost the man I loved (not the ogre) at the same time. I wrote a play about how I felt... my first play. That's all I did for about two months was write this play. And my female character fully expressed all the hate and anger and bitterness and despair and craziness and grief I was feeling and acted what she was feeling out on the male character, and it was so cathartic. When I finished the play I felt I had finished with the ogre and the other man. And somehow the loneliness was gone and has never returned. In fact, I don't want anyone around. I'm having much too good a time getting to know myself. Love,

Valerie
What a great story of healing,-- getting the anger out at those who hurt you in relationships and I'll bet those men who weren't there for you were father substitutes, a father who couldn't be there for you either. You were using the self-help measures long before I found them. The discovery of the biology just supports what people have been doing intuitively for a long time. Thanks for sharing this.

Ellie
19

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sun Aug 22, 1999 11:34pm

Subject: Holotropic breath work
From Margie

I used the holotropic breath work techniques and fall into real deep pain. Your method helped me not to be stuck in it but to get out of it very quickly. I am grateful for your method.

I'm so glad to hear when the measures can be used along with other therapies and techniques.

Ellie
The Biology of Emotions article is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

To join the Depression-Anxiety list:

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/Depression-Anxiety
20

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Wed Aug 25, 1999 11:17pm

Subject: Other techniques
From Lynn (who is post-flood) about other techniques.
I did some Stettbacher before I read your article and it used to send my into psychotic states - I even had my second most serious attempt at suicide while I was trying to use his technique, although I had the support of my shrink, I was doing my Stett sessions alone. The pain was appalling and although it was possible to make sense of it, what was missing was a dynamic momentum to put the "bad", the "wrong", all the negative in a word, OUTSIDE my self. My ego always surrendered to stronger feelings of guilt and depreciation, throwing myself into deep depression and causing my work to be interrupted. I had come to the conclusion - with my shrink - that my emotional world was inaccessible without the turmoil of guilt and the subsequent depression, and that, when I was functioning well, a complete seal was put upon my feelings. I felt disconnected from myself to the point of seeming an iceberg, and I felt the constant threat over my head of a crisis coming out of nowhere at ANY time. The systematic re-directing of ALL agressivity towards the outside - towards the very people who caused it in the first place was what made it possible for me to face the pain, feel the feelings and let detox my brain. Lynn
Yes, and this happens also in primal therapy. Using the self-help measures one can turn 'thoughts' of need or guilt (rather than sitting in that pain or trying to express it) into anger at the very beginning of a primal (a detox) and redirect the anger toward parents who didn't supply that need or made us feel guilty. The primal will be less painful, end sooner, and be a more effective healing event. There may be a high and then some depression afterward. This does not mean the detox crisis was incomplete or unresolved. It's just part of the cycle. This is what the self-help measures are about, and doing this all day long at the first sign of an excitatory symptom (a primal, a detox), rather than just at primal sessions, is what makes recovery rapid.

Ellie
21

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Tue Aug 31, 1999 4:25am

Subject: Rejection
As painful as it is, rejection can be turned into anger and in fact become less painful and a trigger for recovery. As you can imagine this theory was rejected by a number of psychiatric journals. Sending it to these journals was an opportunity for me to confront the abuses I suffered in the hands of many psychiatrists and to feel and release anger. Finally a journal editor enthusiastically accepted the theory, even invited me to speak at his International Convention along with Alice Miller.
But when I told him about how this theory developed as a result of my own personal recovery he quickly rejected it. Not being a neuroscientist he was unable to understand the scientific proof, and not post-flood himself he probably could not see the merit in self-help measures. I was devastated and hurt but soon realized this was again an opportunity to heal. It triggered my birth trauma, i.e. he gave my theory life and then rejected it just as my parents gave me life and then rejected me emotionally.
This happened toward the end of my detox. For several weeks I did a lot of pounding on the bed and yelling at my parents (and the editor) and mentally expressing my anger all through the day. The healing was dramatic and it brought me to post-flood. It was interesting that during this time I wrote a note to a friend that came out in child's handwriting. I also developed bruise marks on my legs where I had been held upside down when I was born. Janov has pictures of this in his clients who were experiencing birth trauma. This happens because neural pathways where memories of these early events are stored are being cleared out. After this dramatic healing I was able to remember a number of childhood traumas without emotional pain.
I hope you will be able to use any rejections, small or large, for your benefit.
Ellie
22

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sat Sep 4, 1999 3:59am

Subject: Lonliness is a craving
Hi, things are a bit better, haven't had another panic attack, for that I'm very grateful. I'm pretty stuck in the depression... seems like too much effort to even clean my body these days....I feel so helpless, powerless, ... I have a hunch its the loneliness that's hurts so much right now, and I don't seem to feel worthy of going out. I keep thinking that I need to 'go outside' myself to get help, and then there is a voice inside of me that says....you have you're own answers, just do the work...

Patsy
Hi,

I'm glad things a bit better. Yes, the work is all inside, and so simple, it's just about getting all the anger out. Some have found they can get out of the depression by going and doing some work releasing and redirecting the anger. It's a periodic detox process. Feelings of loneliness are a craving, a craving for people in the co-dependent way. Get mad at your parents. They caused you to 'need' people because they were not there for you when you needed to be dependent as a child. But we don't need people in that sense as adults, we need to get angry at our parents and then the need for co-dependencies will disappear. Try yelling at them while picturing them every time you feel lonely. When you are post flood you will never feel lonely again. That's a promise. Love,

Ellie
23

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sat Sep 4, 1999 5:17am

Subject: Rejection
I have been feeling so much better lately. I'm whispering it....Like I want it to be a secret...I'm so much afraid it would be taken away from me...Remember you told me about a friend who rejected you during your work on your depression and how it helped you getting the anger out? Well it happened to me too!!! She didn't actually reject me. She is like a sister to me! She made me admit that I was blaming her for my depression. But then even though she called for it, she was badly hurt. God knows I didn't want to hurt her. She asked for some time off. She needed to detach for a while. She needed to know where she stood with me. Take your time, I said. I love you. I thought I was very hurt myself. But no! I was not hurt. And there's the big change in thought!! I was mad at her!!! I was so angry and I let it all out in the privacy of my mind, using T.'s fu fu prayers at work, allowing it to come out at home...

Then she called and apologized and I apologized too and cried some and laughed some...Anyway. I do feel so much better. Actually I don't feel any depression at all....(Whispering again here...)

Irene
How nice to hear from you and what wonderful work you are doing. Don't whisper, shout it to the world, your depression will slowly disappear the more you do things like what you just did. It will get better and better. Releasing and redirecting anger has the same effect as an antidepressant. The more you keep doing the self-help measures there will come a time when you don't need an antidepressant. BE SURE to redirect the anger toward your parents if you are mad at a friend who seems to reject you. Your parents are the ones who really rejected you.

Love,

Ellie
24

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sat Sep 4, 1999 10:11am

Subject: Endorsements
Here are some endorsements.
From Prisons, People, Psychologists, and the Bible
"You are absolutely correct that when one of our wards decides to set out on the path to recovery, self-help as well as structured programs such as the twelve step are effective. Your personal biography adds perspective." Director, State of California Youth Correctional Agency.
"Your interest in providing self-help materials for the inmates is well appreciated." Warden, Federal Prison, USA
"I wish you success." Official of the US Department of Justice.
"I was mentally ill and locked on violent wards in mental hospitals for many years. I had serious addictions and suffered intense anxiety and depression. I turned my anger inward in suicidal rage. At age 70, after using the self-help measures for a few months my anxiety and depression were gone. Within a year I was free of all emotional problems and addictions. I have all the emotions I was born with, anger, sadness, and joy. My mind is at peace. Ellie
"I searched endlessly for help from depression, dread, fear, and emptiness in my life. I have at last been given permission to express my anger in a way that would not affect others or leave me feeling bad, wrong, guilty, or worse. I can feel the toxins coming out. It's working. I am so excited. It's all ringing true. I feel alive for the first time ever. I feel joy and a sense of well being and relief. Your theory is brilliant, simple, and beautiful." Cathy
"What made a difference to me was the redirecting concept...to give back the anger to those who triggered it. It did not fix my marriage--it salvaged it. We were talking about separation. Guess what the main reason for a divorce would have been--'uncontrollable outbursts of violence' on my part. I had been chronically depressed for 25 years. Now it is three months that I haven't felt depressed. I can't believe I am even saying this, having turned round and round in circles for 10 years in therapy. Now I trust my own body and soul to know the way." Lynn
"I was touched by your story. It is truly wonderful, and speaks volumes for the efficiency of this approach. I had a major depressive episode that almost cost me my life. I was in despair. I tried screaming and hitting inanimate objects to turn the depression into anger. The results are astonishing. My depression lifts immediately. I found my repressed anger against my mom, and worked at it so effectively I really understand where the term "flood" comes from. I feel much better. I had my worst suicidal attack when I while on an antidepressant. I no longer use antidepressants. I have lost interest in TV violence. I know I have more work to do and that this is a gradual process. Frank
"I have continued to mentally redirect and connect the "bad" feelings--any feelings of becoming small, vulnerable, feeling less than, feeling abandoned, alone, stupid or ugly. Since I usually feel "small" around other people I do this mentally even at work. It levels out my low mood within minutes. My lingering depression which lasted for almost a year is pretty much lifted. It works!! I am feeling so much better. The beating on the bed didn't work for me. Instead I am in a cycling class with pumping, aggressive, outrageous music and as I am cycling like a madwoman I am imagining my strength at decimating my tormentors. It is very physical and I feel so released. Their faces appear less and less. My best to you Ellie and your wonderful messages. Cindy
"Beautifully formulated and expressed." Reviewer, The Journal of Theoretical Biology.
"Pioneering. I have been writing for decades about how nations go through cycles of feeling toxic and then going to war to purge themselves." Lloyd de Mause, Psychohistory.
"Extremely impressive...promising." Editor, Psychophysiology.
"Compelling and intriguing." Reviewer, Psychiatry.
"Magnificent, awesome." Nutritionist.
"You are helping many people." Psychiatrist.
"When I read your abstract it was as though all the dots in my brain connected. Thousands will read it. I am incorporating the principles in my therapy and will give it to friends who work in prisons. "Psychotherapist
"I will be writing a paper about this for a school psychology journal."

School psychologist.

The New Testament word for sin, 'hamartia,' comes from the sport of archery and literally means "missing the mark" -misdirected anger! The Biblical command, Old and New Testament, is: "Be angry and do not sin." 9/9/99
Please re-read the article on the geocities site. The self-help measures are very simple once you study this and understand the simple concept of wrong neurons and the need to redirect anger at the first sign of nervous symptoms.
The Biology of Emotions article is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

Ellie

25

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sun Sep 5, 1999 5:38am

Subject: Loneliness
A response to my saying, 'when post-flood you will never feel lonely again.'
Ellie,

I have been suppressing this response for a while but here goes:

According to me, the above is panacea-type thinking. Yet another Extreme. "You will NEVER feel lonely again." To me it feels like grandiosity. Is uncertain life (life without adherence to one theory, one guru, etc.) really like this? I don't believe so. Your theory makes much sense and is definitely worth testing out on one's own (which is what I am doing with my punching bag) but it is not THE end-all theory, the ONE ANSWER. I am so sick of "if you just do this, you will NEVER feel lonely or fearful or WHATEVER AGAIN" Also, I am a little suspicious of the way this list is set-up (everything filtered thru you, with you as the authority/guru of re-directing). It doesn't feel very democratic to me. Obviously, you've pushed my buttons. I'll save you telling me that my anger should really be directed towards my parents (the original gurus). You're right. I will have a go at the punching bag later re: this authority/obedience issue. But I believe you need to hear this, too.

Still your friend?,

Maury
In an attempt to be democratic, I am posting your comments to the list (smiles). I have set up the list this way for several reasons. It is not necessary to interact with others on the list to use the measures. I don't wish to be repetitive on this list, but to offer it as one way to recover, a way that has been shown to be faster than some of the other methods. I also wish to keep everyone anonymous on the list. I would rather not put on the list opinions that are not born out by the biology. I don't really have time to put everything on the list. Perhaps I will eventually put the testimonials on my web page and not have a list. But I find it is a way to attract people and to be more helpful.
It has never been my intention that the self-help measures are the only way, and I've made this very clear, and also that I am not a guru and very much learning from your experience and that of others. But I do claim knowledge of the biology of emotions, and upon this is based some of the claims I make. You will find these same claims made by others who are post-flood (post-primal, post-therapy, 'cleared' by Dianetic therapy). The theory is scientifically valid and supports primal therapy, experiential therapy, Janov, Miller, Jensen, Stettbacher, the Dianetic therapy of Scientology, and many others.
Someone told me Alice Miller was self-centered and autocratic. Anyone who stands up at a 12-step meeting and tells their story and claims sobriety might be considered the same. I also read that when someone has discovered a truth they come across as arrogant. I understand I can come across this way. What can I say--I am not perfect or fully recovered myself-- of course I cannot claim such a thing. But the biology I have discovered is true, the self-help measures do work and work rapidly if used consistently, and I am post-flood, or post-primal in Janov's sense, and my addictions are gone, at least 99% gone (As for any flood--in this case the flood of excess neurotransmitters in the brain--there is no 100%.) This means I don't crave people in a co-dependent sense, i.e. I am not lonely, even when alone. Co-dependency is an addiction, the basic addiction upon which all other addictions are based, and addictions cease post-flood or certainly after the muddy basin period I speak of. The feelings of loneliness I refer to are a craving for co-dependencies. Of course we all want and need people, but not in the co-dependent sense. If I had written 'you will not be lonely', instead of 'you will never be lonely' would that have been better (more smiles)? I'm not perfect about how I say things and one other nice thing I claim about being post-flood is that I am no longer a perfectionist.
You mention fear also. When I read your message I had a twinge of fear, part of my restored fight or flight response, but it disappeared right away as I realized I could reply to what you said and defend myself. The freedom from fear I speak of post-flood is a freedom from the intense neurotic fear that gripped me for 60 plus years. My life was one long panic attack. Should I not offer freedom from this to others?
Of course we are friends. When are you sending me your picture to pin up on my bulletin board of post-flood friends.

Ellie
The Biology of Emotions article is on:

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579

To join the Depression-Anxiety list:

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/Depression-Anxiety
26

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Sun Sep 5, 1999 9:56am

Subject: Loneliness
PS I want to add something important I left out on this subject--you see how imperfect I am (smiles). When I said post-flood people are not lonely, this was not meant to say post-flood people necessarily live alone. Janov talks of post-primal people marrying, but it's not via romantic love.

Ellie
27

From: Elnora Van Winkle

Date: Mon Sep 6, 1999 4:02am

Subject: loneliness and physical damage
-Sally's response to some recent posts.

>Hi,

>Yes, the work is all inside, and so simple, it's just about getting all the anger out...Feelings of loneliness are a craving, a craving for people in the co-dependent way. Get mad at your parents. They caused you to 'need' people because they were not there for you when you needed to be dependent as a child.
>But we don't need people in that sense as adults, we need to get angry at our parents and then the need for co-dependencies will disappear. Try yelling at them while picturing them every time you feel lonely. When you are post flood you will never feel lonely again. That's a promise. Love, Ellie
Hi Ellie,

Every time I get a message from you I feel I get an insight and I am working within to redirect the anger at my parents. I realized this weekend as a guest at Rancho La Puerta in Tecate Mexico that I feel I do not connect in a deeper way with people. It's an effort to talk and connect although I'm a social butterfly. Sounds like a paradox. I start another group for 6 sessions on Tues and I plan to bring that issue up. I realize it is my mother and now I have another issue to redirect. I don't know if it's loneliness that I feel but I've had to fend for myself for so long not relying on 'mother' or even 'father' although he was more there for me. I understand codependency more each day and now you've added another piece to the puzzle. That's what cracked me up in the last group therapy I was in. I realized I was so codependent and damned if I stayed or didn't stay. I did leave and the new therapist feels that the therapist was codependent as well. The emotional pain was excruciating for 2 months and started fading in August and now I'm getting clarity. I realize that when those feelings come up of feeling bad about myself for not connecting more Authentically and deeply with others that I can vent on my mother. I also do cartoons and she and another woman in group that 'attacked' me are the butt of the cartoons and that is helpful and hilarious too. There's hope for me.

------------------------------- rejection note

--------------------------

The following is a former note of yours about rejection and leg injury...and my notes follow it.
>As painful as it is, rejection can be turned into anger and in fact become less painful and a trigger for recovery. As you can imagine this theory was rejected by a number of psychiatric journals...
But when I told him about how this theory developed as a result of my own personal recovery he quickly rejected it. Not being a neuroscientist he was unable to understand the scientific proof, and not post-flood himself he probably could not see the merit in self-help measures. I was devastated and hurt but soon realized this was again an opportunity to heal. It triggered my birth trauma, i.e. he gave my theory life and then rejected it just as my parents gave me life and then rejected me emotionally.
This happened toward the end of my detox. For several weeks I did a lot of pounding on the bed and yelling at my parents (and the editor) and mentally expressing my anger all through the day. The healing was dramatic and it brought me to post-flood. It was interesting that during this time I wrote a note to a friend that came out in child's handwriting. I ALSO DEVELOPED BRUISE MARKS ON MY LEGS WHERE I HAD BEEN HELD UPSIDE DOWN WHEN I WAS BORN. JANOV HAS PICTURES OF THIS IN HIS CLIENTS WHO WERE EXPERIENCING BIRTH TRAUMA. THIS HAPPENS BECAUSE NEURAL PATHWAYS WHERE MEMORIES OF THESE EARLY EVENTS ARE STORED ARE BEING CLEARED OUT. AFTER THIS DRAMATIC HEALING I WAS ABLE TO REMEMBER A NUMBER
OF CHILDHOOD TRAUMAS WITHOUT EMOTIONAL PAIN.
>I hope you will be able to use any rejections, small or large, for your benefit. Ellie
Sally's response:
I have had a number a leg injuries and just am recovering from another. I had photos taken of me in my late 20's for social purposes and my best friend noticed that both of my feet from the ankles down looked 'withered'. I had to agree. In my 30's and 40's I had one, serious staph infection with ulcers around the feet and ankles and healed it naturally and two, severe edema in both legs from twisting an ankle! (Eating disorder involvement on last one) During the crescendo of the edema/ankle twist I attended a psychic/astrological lecture in Miami and accidentally went into trance when the lecturer did and I looked at my legs and I could 'see' 'feel' that injuries were psychically related to some childhood trauma that went unnamed. I was in a state of deep relaxation. After the lecture was over I got up and walked out without the crutches and pain!
NOW I have a severe spasm in the center of my right adductor from doing too much afro-cuban dancing and yoga and modern dance. It went into severe bruising from the groin to the knee and down into the calf and ankle area, a 'pulled muscle'. The healing is working downward and the blood/bruising is pooling now mainly around the knee and I noticed new swelling above the ankle. I attended a Juan Gabriel concert in Tijuana that began at 1 am. It was a stretch physically however I was in good company. I had to stand most of the time and shift weight (dance) because it was too painful to sit. He projected so much love and the audience sang along with him in a chorus response way much of the time. I got such a feeling of love and union while that was happening. Anyway after the concert and the next morning I had nearly zero pain and limp. The pain and limp kicked in again on the way home when I had to sit on the bus, in the airport, on the plane, in the car. I was shocked by your comment on birth trauma. I feel my mother must have done something terribly restrictive to my feet early on or perhaps it could be - being held to strongly by the feet by the doctor at birth. Somehow I feel my mother is involved doing anything she can to restrict my movement and energy. Sorry this is such a long note. I must say that I was a born athlete with gold medals in my father's genealogy and it's been hard looking back not to have that developed in my by my mother. I'm making up for lost time and I overdid the afro-cuban thing. I guess I can get mad at her for all of my self-medicating and overdoing and not developing a better sense of balance and taking care of myself, too. I can still feel this lump/muscle knot in the center of the right adductor now that most of the swelling is down. The injury has also been accompanied with occasional nausea, near passing out, feelings that I will throw up or poop, and loss of appetite. It feels that in some way my inner core is coming to life and my appetite is more organic and natural and not so compulsive. That's some progress. However, I feel too that there is a knot in my adductor and a corresponding one in my intestines. I had very abusive toilet training and nothing much came out after that including emotions. Somehow I feel the leg injury is related to the 'intestinal injury'.
Thanks for you awesome notes and insights. They really sing and speak to me.

Sally
Thank you Sally -- when the nervous system clears out as a result of releasing and redirecting anger, it can repair the peripheral damage that occurred during childhood trauma. It is all a deoxification process--the brain is releasing toxic neurochemicals that have prevented it from functioning normally--and in this process we re-experience the acute trauma, hence the appearance of bruise marks or swelling or other temporary symptoms. When I was doing a food detox, which I did along with the anger detox, I re-experienced acute lung problems--I had a lung tumor that healed. Another time I had a severe strep throat--may have been related to early damage during tonsillitis and surgery for that. Toward the end of my emotional detox for a week I had a fever of around 103, all a part of my body detoxing and healing.

Ellie