This file contains all the messages in the Yahoo group currently located at the link below. This will allow you to read through the messages off-line
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380 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 2:34am Subject: Re: Parents Not Apologizing > Dear Ellie - > I can really relate to Kelly's desire to confront her mom about never apologizing to her. When my parents recently finally invited me to come home again to visit (they offered some financial assistance) I wanted to go, but knew I would not feel "safe" with them without taking my husband. I wrote them a nice but short note telling them I was postponing, but wanted to visit at some point with my husband with me. As I wrote the e-mail, I thought how it would have been nice if at some point in my life my mother had just once apologized to me for all her nastiness. She has shamed me and reminded me of all my shortcomings, even reminding me "You had a bad temper in high school," etc., almost as if to keep it alive. And still I've kept my mouth shut and not criticized her. Part of me, while writing that note, wanted to say, "Look, until you apologize and fess up a little, for God's sake, don't expect me to come running home to see you." But as I keep working with the redirecting, my feelings of anger are fading and in its place more acceptance. I don't believe I'll ever feel a strong bond to my parents, but perhaps I'll enjoy visiting and getting to reknow them as people, if that makes sense-- in the same way I find myself able to befriend and enjoy many other people whose views and lifestyles I don't really resonate with. All for now -- Shirely 381 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 7:29am Subject: Re: appreciation from the bottom of the pile. > Ellie, I stumbled across this poem while looking for something to say to my mother. It hit me like some cryptic solution to the communication breakdown I always received from both of my parents. Kelly > > SOME MOTHER'S SON > His cup shook unsteadily in his outstretched hand > His bloodshot eyes begged out a silent plea > They seemed to say I know this is my fault > But please, find it in your heart to help me. > My eyes took in his torn, ragged jeans > Bare skin thru the holes in his shoe > His shaggy gray beard and long matted hair > My heart felt like it was breaking in two. > > A dollar I took from my meager supply > As the stench from his body I smelled > I smiled, said hello, looked right in his eye > With this kindness oh, how his chest swelled. >
> He slowly, steadily raised his head > His eyes were a startling blue > He said "Dear lady, you are so kind > With my whole heart I want to thank you." > > With a tear in my eye, an ache in my heart > I slowly walked away > Those eyes that belong to some mother's son > Continue to haunt me each day.
Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 7:47am Subject: The scientific proof The scientific article with the proof that the self-help measures work, "The toxic mind: the biology of mental illness and violence," is now distributed to medical libraries, and I have the editor's permission to post the full article on my web site. It is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html My former colleagues at Millhauser Laboratories, NYU Medical School, (labs I helped build and where I worked for 20 years) are probably the worlds authorities on catecholamine metabolism, and much of the evidence came from their work and mine over the years. They have acknowledged the truth of the theory but now they are ignoring me--this began when they realized I was intent on publishing it. I even received a threatening letter with a lawyer's name telling me I needed their permission to have it on an NYU web site. Later I was told that under no circumstances was I allowed Internet access to the NYU medical library. One of my former colleagues, a child psychiatrist said, 'There's no money in this, people don't want to hear the truth.' I have sent it also to the prominent people in neuroscience. A friend, when I asked her if she thought I would get attacked for this, said 'they'll do worse, they'll ignore you.' But the real reason I think scientists will not accept this theory is because of personal denial about their own need for recovery. The proof for the theory is not in statistics, which cannot cover all variables, and are often misleading, but in proven physiological mechanisms based on years of research. Most researchers, especially in the USA, want to have their theories proven by some recent exciting discovery or misleading statistics. They have buried the physiology textbooks beneath piles of reprints about current experiments. They have buried the very source of valid proof. I do think in time when there is some positive feedback about its effect on prison populations and on violence it will get some recognition. The final proof may be in its prediction that violence will end. The scientific article has been useful in convincing Ambassadors and prison officials that it will help prisoners, but publishing the proof in a medical journal is otherwise not of much use, since it is not what will trigger recovery for anyone. That is best done by telling my story and your stories of recovery. To borrow from the 12 step programs, this is 12 step work. And getting back to Jesus, he said to 'go to the lost sheep,' and that is the advice I've tried to follow by sending it to prisoners and the homeless. I hope you enjoy reading it. It is not too technical and easily understood by anyone with a basic background in biology. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 5:02am Subject: Movies and TV Shows Thomas Stone, in Cure by Crying, recommends watching movies that trigger emotions. I found this useful also and was attracted to movies and TV shows that allowed me to re-enact previous trauma and get my anger out. For me this was movies like The Snake Pit, and if I still needed to do this, I would probably be attracted to the new TV show Wonderland, Thurs. ABC, at 10P EST. This is a depiction of life on a Bellevue ward, (my first hospitalization was there...actually so was the lab where I worked and where we discovered a toxin in urine of schizophrenic patients). I'm no longer attracted to this, but if any of you had experiences on mental wards and suffered abuse from the psychiatric profession, this might be useful to you. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 6:31am Subject: Suicidal thought If you have joined this list but are severely depressed with suicidal thinking please seek professional help. Suicidal thinking is the ultimate example of turning anger inward rather than redirecting it to past abusers as in the self help measures. But if you cannot do this please seek help and get on antidepressants. You can come back and use the self-help measures later. Ellie 386 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 10:24am Subject: Turn the anger out > not to worry. I have seen MD's. I cannot take antidepressants. I will manage. I've been here before. I do see a therapist. It's hard until you point out a specific, for me to see that I'm turning anger inward...pounding is not for me I find it more frustrating. throwing is more acceptable although it exacerbates the rage. again not to worry. I will figure something out. I might be able to find a distraction. meanwhile what's useful is for me to keep praying. working on changing my perspective, reach out for support. >
I did some redirecting, crying hating them for not being there for me to give me comfort/abandoning/rejecting me. I took some meds...which calmed my body down...whenever I go thru a rejection/abandonment I have chills, shakes when I wake up in the a.m. & am more depressed & the agitation is overwhelming. i.e. the meds. I've had this all before even w/redirecting I've done in the past. I still get terrified & don't want to live...but am too afraid to take my life. Id like to go to sleep & not wake up-or have someone offer to house me in exchange for services, or let me store my car w/them...too many dilemmas to cope with...no job, little money, almost homeless, car needs repair, no friends here, no support here, yakity yak... so there you have it.. Laura You are not alone. There are over 80 on this list supporting you. DON'T TURN THAT ANGER INWARD...throw, rage, redirect it. It's OK that the rage is exacerbated as long as you redirect it. That's the idea...to get it out. When you have shakes, agitation, that's especially when you need to do some redirecting. I was near homeless too, with no money, no friends...I hate them for what they did to you, if I lived nearby I would come over and throw things with you. Keep telling us, not about how you made a mess of it, but how justifiably angry you are... Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 10:55am Subject: Support for Laura > Laura > I'm with you. Hope it helps to know that you are helping me. I needed to be reminded to redirect and that I didn't create this mess and that I need to be angry at those that did. Things will work out and you are not alone. > Thank You > Fred
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 10:31pm Subject: Re: More support for Laura > Laura, You are not alone, I have been there, even recently and redirecting does help, just keep remembering that pounding that bed is releasing all those toxins, and you will feel better, I know this is true. Marie PS Laura, most people on the list do not post, but I'm sure they are all rooting for you...don't turn that anger in... Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 10:55pm Subject: The love you need is within you Dear Elnora, Something has happened tonight. I was having a super-crisis, about to explode of anxiety, depression, insomnia, black-thoughts, horrible mental and physical state. I have gone to my mother and started talking with her about myself. I have started complaining from the past, from the life they gave me, from their constant fights, from the lack of love, and suddenly I started crying and crying blaming them for everything, asking her for apologizes. She denies all this harm, but nevertheless I have felt very well afterwards. I guess I have relieved a lot of adrenaline towards the one (ones) that I consider inside of me the guilty ones for my suffering. It probably works like that, but still makes me very confused. I need a family, I can't be in this "middle of nowhere" where I feel lonely and scared lacking love and a center. This is so confusing...I am full of hate towards my family, and at the same time I need them because I feel lost and empty inside as "lacking" a home and a center. What do you suggest? All the best Claude Dear Claude, You were having a detox crisis which was a good time to get your anger out and redirect toward your parents, and when you went in person to tell your mother, you 'felt very well afterwards'. You are right that this is how it works. But it's not likely you will get any apologies unless you parents are in recovery themselves. Your mother's denial may trigger more anger in you, and is another opportunity to do some pounding on the bed and redirecting anger toward her, but try to do it right away when you feel the hurt. The more you can do this at the time you have the 'anxiety, depression, insomnia, black-thoughts, horrible mental and physical state' the better, rather than later on going to confront in person. In between detox crises you may feel 'in this "middle of nowhere" where I feel lonely and scared lacking love and a center.' You are not alone and the feeling of loneliness will go away in time. All the love you need is within you. The 'family' you feel you need is not the family that will make you happy and you won't need them anymore. Keep doing the redirecting mentally and pounding on the bed as often as you can. And remember you may have some increased depression and confusion in between these episodes. Put a sign on the refrig..."It will lift" Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 11:05pm Subject: Medication caution If you are on medication while using the self-help measures...when you feel better and decide you can go off the medication completely, be sure to see your doctor and do it under medical supervision. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 10:32am Subject: Lonely? Feelings of loneliness are a good opportunity to do some redirecting. Before I became post flood I was all alone with no friends...my last best friend abandoned me, and I felt the hurt of rejection and abandonment. But when I recognized the hurt was related to the original emotional abandonment by my parents, I used these moments to redirect and rage at my parents. I said in my mind...'It's all your fault I'm alone...it's your fault I chose people in my life who also abandoned me...I hate you for this f..u f..u,' I got my anger out at the original rejection....and I did some pounding on the bed. I had no idea at that time that when I became post flood I would still be alone most of the time, but NOT feel lonely. You may not believe it when you are feeling this way, but I promise you it will happen if you keep redirecting when you feel this hurt. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 10:48am Subject: Loving support Laura-I am sorry you are suffering so much. I am sending you all the good energy I can. I feel our parents have done us so many injustices including leaving us unprepared to maneuver in this world. I still look to other "grownups" to see how I am supposed to respond in certain situations and even so the next time the situation comes up I feel awkward and idiotic. I hate my parents for not loving or caring about me. I hate them for not noticing that I was alive and that indeed to be loved, touched and held and that it never happened. I frequently get stuck in these crushing, debilitating feelings and find it hard to redirect. Yesterday I saw the Cider House Rules and cried through most of it. It is a story about orphans and I have always felt like one. I felt connected to myself again after crying and I felt like I was a human being again instead of a deadened lifeless stupid blob. I just wanted you to know I read your postings with caring and I am supporting you in your process. With respect and caring, Cyndy 393 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 2:08am Subject: Supportive friends are on the list > Laura. you are not alone, I have been there, even recently and redirecting does help, just keep remembering that pounding that bed is releasing all those toxins, and you will feel better, I know this is true. Marie Hi Ellie, This is for Laura Hi Laura, I've been praying for you. I have often been in situations where I've felt very alone and wondered if I would end up on the street. I have a large family but felt very disconnected from them. I was one of nine children and felt like I was in a home for unwanted children. When we turned 18 my parents made it very clear they expected us to be on our own. Emotionally I had been on my own for most of my life. I also felt unprepared to make it in the world and even now my nightmares are about failing to or being unable to care for myself. Even though now I am probably more secure than I have ever been I am still bothered by these things and it has been necessary to redirect anger towards my parents. The emotional abandonment is the worst even though we also did not have much materially. It is also necessary for me to remind myself that there is a God who cares very much even though I cannot often feel his presence. Hope this helps, there is One who hears your cry. Love Carol Thanks for the support for Laura. She was away from her computer so didn't yet get all your messages, but she did send this post and is OK. Ellie
Laura
> I can only underline that. There's a strong connection between loneliness and co-dependency. I think loneliness happens if one is cut off his/her own roots. If we are connected to our history we are connected to life itself. I had made a lot of unhealthy compromises in my life to avoid the feeling of being lonely, often with poor effect. One can only benumb this feeling for a short time. Now I know I'm alone if I want to and if not I know what to do. I enjoy being on my own and don't need to prolong unpleasant relationships. I have also found that the tension between me and my parents has lessened much, the same with some friends. We can speak more relaxed. Unhealed anger disturbs relationships. Often I hadn't even realized it, when I was acting out my anger, but felt rejected without knowing why. This caused new rage. I now process my anger on my own and it works. The trust in myself is grown a lot. Andrew That's great....Good for you. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 6:03am Subject: Re: crying Dear Ellie, I was wondering if the grief period that happens post flood is also periodic. I experienced about 4 days of crying and then got the acute attack of IBS and on top of that got a bad cold. The crying has stopped and I wonder if I can expect it to return? I just read Aletha Solter's book on tears and tantrums and have a new appreciation of crying. Carol Dear Carol, It's hard to say because everyone is a bit different and different parts of the brain are detoxing in different people at different times. Usually crying follows a release of anger, because the release of anger involves the sympathetic system. After this system discharges, then the parasympathetic system which controls tears can do some detoxing. There is a balance between these two systems. But sometimes there can be the months of detoxing anger to the point of post flood, and then a long period of grief, which yes, would probably be periodic as well. I did a lot of crying just after I was post flood, ie no more MAJOR detox crises of anger. But there continues to be a need to release and redirect the diminishing anger throughout the muddy basin period, so there is likely to be some crying after each of these releases. Anyway, I'm trying to say, yes, it will probably return, but I found my crying was less intense, and less and less to do with me, and more with others. You will have all the emotions you were born with, normal amounts of anger and tears. When I read some of your stories on this list, I cry. It is not a painful crying, but a normal reaction. What is really wonderful about this recovery, is when I have emotions like anger, they are not intense and there is NO more neurotic fear attached...no more tightness in my chest...I lived in fear for over sixty years, and it is a real joy to be rid of it. Ellie
I had depression, anxiety, insomnia and panic. In that time I went to a doctor and he gave me Prozac. I took Prozac, and in 5 weeks the suicidal symptoms passed. Now, 6 months then, I just take 1/3 of the recommended minimum dosage and the doctor told me that will still decrease this month. I am feeling very well!!! > Since I began the self-help (1 month later) I improved a lot and the alterations in the humor are now smaller. I don't take the bromazepan since 30 days ago. My depression decreased a lot and my thoughts are more realistic. Juan
Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 11:55pm Subject: Creativity returned > Hi Ellie! Well, actually, so MUCH is happening around my music and art, it's quite amazing. People and opportunities are literally popping up out of the woodwork, Ellie! I have a jam session with a jazz keyboard player tomorrow night, and he just happens to have a whole bunch of extra amps and microphones, so that even though mine aren't fixed yet it doesn't matter. (Nice little touch, Universe.) Then, there is a great drummer who has all my tapes and has followed my music over the years. He gave me his card the same day as the keyboard player and said he'd like to play with us, so that's a possibility. I've been doing a lot of beadwork and jewelry gifts lately. Also, a neighbor out of the blue commissioned me to paint some art cards for her. And I'm totally psyched now about starting my silk painting business again, and have started buying more stretcher frames and resist and other supplies. (The main thing is the silk, of course! ;-) ) I found a wonderful silk painter on the Internet whose work just really blew me away, and it turns out he is an incredibly nice man who also gives an inexpensive but intensive course on the Internet to help people become even more professional, both artistically and business-wise, in their silk painting; also many money-saving inventions and short-cuts. So I've been in touch with him and plan to take his course soon. > I think I've really turned a corner. In fact, I know I have. I just feel a lot better now, and feel that mysterious passion for creation and spontaneous play returning, despite having twisted my back a few days ago and being on aspirin around the clock. Shirley 401 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Apr 12, 2000 0:09am Subject: (no subject) Dear Ellie, It's been pretty quiet on the list lately but perhaps there is some trouble your having. I'm pretty sure I'm getting the rest of my e-mail. Hope everything is okay with you. I feel like I am in a stall. Nothing has really happened in the last two weeks since the 3 or 4 days of crying. I guess I had expected the grief period to keep going. I wonder if I could have done something to make it stop. I actually wanted it to keep on because I thought it would help especially with the physical problems. I don't seem to be making much progress there either and I am afraid that maybe it isn't going to work for me, after all this time and effort. I was motivated to keep going because I could see that all the things that you said would happen, happened. I had insomnia and headaches which I'd never had before and was not expecting and also depressions after the anger and then the grief. I have had some more anger, which I am continuing to redirect. I guess I was just hoping for a cure. I am not complaining, just wondering. Carol Dear Carol, I've had a bit of computer trouble and sorry if I lost any posts and did not answer. If anyone sent me a post and did not get an answer within a few days, please resend. I'm afraid there is no sudden cure, a point when you can say...'Ah, I'm now in heaven and never get sick'. It's important to keep redirecting the residual anger as you are doing. It may last for a good year or so. In the long run it will help with those physical symptoms (even more that the release of any grief). My diet is never going to be perfect, and therefore I still at times have headaches and insomnia. I'm having a lot of dental work with anesthetics and have been having headaches and not sleeping for a while, both indications of detoxing. I'm detoxing the anesthetics. If it were not for these healing symptoms, I could end up with toxins that could contribute to cancer, so I'm pleased my body is good at detoxing. I also have to be careful not to suppress anger in current situations, or the toxicosis can re-occur and also cause symptoms. Ellie Yüklə 5,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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