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540 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Jun 30, 2000 8:32pm Subject: Re: Bargaining > Ellie quoted Janov: "Bargaining is the all-American neurosis. It's much the same as the magic diet pill; it's getting something good for little effort, like scotch. What makes bargaining especially delicious is the struggle. The greater the struggle, the more valued the prize. Walking into a store and paying the list price are difficult for many neurotics because to pay retail is not to be made "special." Anyone can pay retail, and if you do, you are just like anyone else." > I recently purchased a new car and my daughter got the identical automobile. . I paid a bit less because I had a newer car to trade in. But for weeks I bragged about my clever negotiations with the sales person and the great deal I finagled. A review of the car appeared in Canada's national newspaper. The price quoted was exactly what I paid. I wasn't so special and I didn't make an extraordinary deal. >
> Now it happens this is my dream car and I would have been a fool to walk away from signing the offer at a higher price as only 500 of the model were allocated for all of Canada. My satisfaction with the product is exceptional. For a while it seemed like I was even more pleased with the "deal" I thought I had made. I think what Janov refers to is that codependent need to be 'loved' and getting something for less might say that the salesman 'loves' us. Sounds like a delusion of the toxic mind to me. I too used to focus on the bargain and having been married to a compulsive gambler I felt I had every reason to seek out the lowest price for everything. Isn't it nice now to be able to pay the going price and have satisfaction. I think it is the loss of fear of poverty. I like the Biblical quote, "Seek ye first the Kingdom and all else will follow" I am not much better off than when my gambling husband died, but seem to have everything I need or want. "My cup runneth over." The Biology of Emotions: http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety
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> The recent onset of major allergies is very dehabilitating. How do I enlist support and understanding, not sympathy, from my friends and immediate family? It is of grave concern not to allow my discomfort and new restrictions to lead to depression since I am bi-polar. I intend to cope as well as possible but fear my health problem will cause me to become isolated and branded "neurotic". GM Good for you that you did not apologize. Are you using the self-help measures?? If so, it may increase your adverse reactions to food and other toxins. The more the nervous system is cleared out the more it will react to toxic substances. We become like little children whose bodies do not tolerate these things. I doubt if you will ever get support and understanding about this from people whose minds are still toxic. I don't need that support from others, and do not care if others think I am neurotic, but if I get criticism such as your daughter sent your way, I would be furious and do some pounding on a bed and redirecting anger to her in my mind. You may have some temporary but increased depression after releasing and redirecting of anger, but when post-flood you will no longer be bipolar, and criticism and lack of support will not cause depression. You will have your appropriate feelings and resolve any temporarily emotional discomfort. As for isolation, there is usually something I can eat at any restaurant and in others homes I can bring something for myself. It's a bit of a problem but can be managed. Most people pay little attention to what I eat as long as I don't talk about it, and usually have fruit to offer. I have even traveled to places like Indonesia and been able to eat all raw food. Ellie The Biology of Emotions: http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety 542 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Fri Jun 30, 2000 9:06pm Subject: Re: Parental Infidelity > Ellie, > I have been dating a guy whom I just found out has a history of infidelity to his past wives....it pushed my buttons *majorly* because I have suppressed anger at my own parents for just that kind of behavior, and I went off on him over the phone out of proportion to the situation. I told him he probably screwed up his kids really bad, etc. > > I've got a lot of work to do still....GM Hooray for you. You did him a great favor confronting him. NO GUILT ALLOWED if it was out of proportion. If so turn the guilt to anger toward your parents whose fault it is you are still attracted to guys like this. Ellie The Biology of Emotions: http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety
> Janov's comments about car radios and music made me uncomfortable. I feel that life is too short to miss a minute of music. I have made it a point to have excellent music reception in my bedroom, living room and car. Sometimes it is just as background noise to not feel alone, as Janov comments. The greater percentage of the time there is thoughtful involvement with content. > P.S. I don't like Muzak or general "background music" if that is good for points. perhaps that is because it puts me in a passive rather than controlling situation where I cannot choose the program content. GM Sounds good, literally! Are you using the self-help measures?? If Janov's comment made you feel uncomfortable it sounds like you perceived him as critical, and there is no need to defend, or think of your progress as 'good for points.' We became neurotic because our parents made us so by causing us to suppress our justifiable anger. If you feel hurt by Janov's comment it sounds like his comment represents a critical parental voice in your head. Get mad at your parents. As I progressed toward post-flood my love for music accelerated and changed somewhat in character, ie I began to like music that was more lively (more Haydn less Beethoven) and less of the heavy depressing stuff. More and more I listened to it actively and less as 'background noise to not feel alone.' Ellie
http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety 544 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Jul 1, 2000 9:42pm Subject: Muddy basin period > Hi Ellie, > I 'm still out here reading your posts. I wanted to give myself some time to see if I was really post flood and was feeling pretty good until last week. Up until that point I hadn't been feeling much anger and was thinking I had made some changes, I still think that's true, but I blew up so badly last week that it scared me. I was yelling (and swearing) and throwing things. I was really angry at my husband and my kids. AT first I thought it was all about them and the current situation but after considering I realized that it was most likely connected to the past and my parents. I realized that I have never developed boundaries and that I attract situations and people who are constantly disregarding mine and I am going to have to be firm in the future about setting them up and defending them when necessary without feeling guilty. When people overstep another person's boundaries and are confronted about it in an honest and direct way then I am not responsible for whatever bad feelings they may have about that. I've realized that my husband is even worse than I am about this so our lives are open sometimes to people to trample all over us. This really makes me mad and it is so justified. Even my kids know this and try to take advantage. Anyway I feel I am changing there and last week I was able to write a letter to someone (who is very manipulative and controlling) and let them know that I was no longer interested in having any kind of relationship with him. I felt that I had to fight with my family about being allowed to do this (hence the angry outburst) but I was able to do it anyway and they now agree with me and understand why it had to be done. I am hoping to be able to recognize these things earlier in the future and avoid any such relationships, and maybe I won't be attracting them so much either. I have some other things to bring up but I'll save them for later. I realize this may be the mudddy basin period you've talked about but I hadn't expected anything that explosive. GM Congratulations. You are an inspiration. It sounds very much like another needed detox crisis during the muddy basin period, with some anger from the past and some from the lingering abusive relationships of the present. If you feel any guilt about it be sure to redirect the 'anger turned inward' to all of them. My 98 yr old aunt, whom I no longer visit, and I have a pleasant phone relationship but she tries to manipulate at times and make me feel guilty for not visiting, and I have to mentally direct anger toward her so I won't feel guilty. After I was post flood and most of the repressed anger from childhood was gone, I still had a friend with whom I thought I had a healthy relationship, but even he became annoying because he was so needy, and I finally confronted him and broke up the relationship. It doesn't sound like you will be attracted to these people anymore, and now that you have your feelings you will easily mend from current conflicts. Ellie 545 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Jul 1, 2000 10:09pm Subject: Respect your elders? Ellie, I am battling once more a problem employee, this is the case, she is 71 and hasn't wanted taxes taken out of her check, because of paying higher taxes, she now tells me she won't work til she hears from her accountant as to how to handle, she might have to pay more at end of year because of, which is absurd, since I will be taking taxes out and would benefit her, not hurt her. But does an employee tell the boss, what they will do and won't do? New experience, I am battling not letting her work any longer, as I told her to go home a certain hour and she stayed 2 hrs longer and no work to show for it. She can't handle the work, I feel like the dog that the tail is wagging the dog, instead of the dog wagging the tail of the dog. I want to tell her what I want, don't know how and don't want to apologize. GM I don't understand the tax part and whether it is important to do it your way or hers I'm afraid, but if this is the issue, ie "Very hard to confront her as I feel she is my 'elder'. I am very torn with this." then sounds like you are letting her be your mother, your elder? The fifth commandment is not the first... My aunt is 98 and lying in an infirmary with a broken rib and I am standing firm and not getting into letting her manipulate me by expecting me to call her (or to fly out for a visit which I know she craves) and never expecting her to call me. I tell her right out, if you want to talk to me call me up! I do call her too and send her cards and a little gift so she knows I care. And for the first time in our relationship she does pick up the phone and call me and we have a more loving relationship in both directions. My point is that the 'respect your elders stuff' is no more in my relationships. I'm not saying to be unkind or not to let her have her way about taxes if it doesn't matter to your business, but if you are doing it because of her age, doesn't sound right for either of you. Ellie 546 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Jul 1, 2000 10:24pm Subject: Primal therapy Re: Janov's description of normalcy and bargaining. > Ellie, NOW I understand, why there are some people who cannot just buy what I have in the store, they have to have it just a little different, as if they want it special made, just a shade different color, is very trying at times, pleasing the masses. Sometimes I feel like not doing anything special for anyone, I have $50,000 of merchandise and they want it different, special. I have one lady especially that finds something in a magazine and wants me to make it for her, I always drag my feet about getting it done, there just seemed something not quite right about her requests, now I understand. I need to read Janov's book apparently. GM
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> My aim is not to get into a food debate here. I would have been anxious to experiment with your diet recommendations but have been placed on an Allergy Exclusion Diet in order to be able to take back and identify foods which trigger allergies. I am not making any progress using the prescribed boiled meat. brown rice, cooked fruits and vegetables and canned milk. Raw hamburger (steak tartare) was always a favorite but I abandoned it when it was found to be a potential cause of disease. I am going to do a fast to see how the allergic reaction fares. GM
"boiled meat. brown rice, cooked fruits and vegetables and canned milk" Are you eating these? These foods are highly toxic and I doubt if you need any experimenting with them to find that out. Can you avoid them. I did a fifteen day water fast with supervision, but I don't think it was the best plan, I think if I had to do it again, I would SLOWLY eliminate cooked foods, especially bread, cooked grains (substitute a baked potato), pasta, dairy, processed foods including sweets (substitute raw dates), but continue to cook meats not too well done, and add more and more raw fruits and vegetables, and later on add sushi and raw eggs. If you have cravings for the toxic foods these are triggers for detox crises and opportunities to do some redirecting. No guilt if you eat them any way. Turn the guilt to anger and redirect. Ellie 548 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Jul 1, 2000 11:21pm Subject: Supplements I'd like to ask you about the product call "SAM-e" GM SAM-e is a form of S-adenosyl methionine, which is a natural substance involved in the metabolism of catecholamines (noradrenaline and adrenaline). Even though it is naturally found in the brain and body, adding it from exogenous sources just increases toxicosis. It is toxic unless formed endogenously in the body. And if you are using the self-help measures it are not needed. Your body will naturally repair the chemical imbalances of catecholamines that have resulted from the suppression of emotions. Ellie 549 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Sat Jul 1, 2000 11:36pm Subject: Non recognition as a person > I was ignored and repressed a great deal. I was an only child with two bipolar parents who separated when I was seven. I was with relatives or in boarding schools until my early teens. I actually spent only three teen years in a stable household with my mother and kind stepfather. Some of their responses seem inappropriate in retrospect. My mother died about three years ago and I was frozen with guilt that only some of our most differences were resolved before her death. The resentment of early suppression and non-recognition as a person will never leave. I was successful in freeing myself of some of her imposed prohibitions on spending money and enjoying the results. Three years after her death I embarked on a project of refurbishing my home and buying a new car. I was rewarded with a successful conclusion, great satisfaction and no guilt and was also so pleased that I did not continue a spending spree in an addictive manner. >
> I was on Lithium (more suppression) for so long that my adult children did not grant me full recognition as a functioning person. My son's attitude of feeling I had no need for new cars, clothes or furniture was only part of something in him I associated with my mother's behavior. My ex husband held an "intervention" between us to clear the air and establish better communication. It only worked for a short time. My mood after discontinuing Lithium was approaching "manic". I then developed the major toxic reaction to food and environment and am currently struggling with it. My daughter invalidates the possibilities that I am having allergic reactions to so much. My family doctor my allergist and I are now questioning the emotional changes as a strong possibility for triggering the sudden allergies. GM Welcome to a group of about a hundred people who have similar stories and are using self-help measures that can free you of this bipolar disease in a few months. My final diagnosis was manic depression. You will no longer find yourself saying. "The resentment of early suppression and non recognition as a person will never leave." Keep studying all the articles and use the self-help measures. Ellie The Biology of Emotions: http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety
> >>>Since the time of Hippocrates it has been understood that symptoms of most diseases, other than degenerative disorders where irreversible organic damage has been sustained, represent the efforts of the body to eliminate toxins (4). Any substance, endogenous or exogenous, that cannot be utilized by the cells is recognized as toxic and eliminated. When elimination is impaired, toxins accumulate<<< > > Ellie, You sure hit the nail on the head here! > I learned about what an excess of carbohydrates do to you a year ago when I ended up in a diabetic coma with a blood sugar count of 1,460. I almost died. I then went on a low carbohydrate diet and lost 70 lbs and became physically healthy. >
> People don't realize all the excess sugar they are getting from the staples in their diet such as bread and grains! GM Isn't it tragic. The paradox is that the attraction to all these toxins is physiological and is because these toxins trigger needed detox crises. Think about how alcohol triggers the release of anger. Prison officials are realizing sugar does the same. When I die I am going to ask God, 'why the devil did you make us this way or did the Devil screw up your creation?'. The way to heal is to keep doing the redirecting, and when post flood you won't be attracted to these toxins. Ellie The Biology of Emotions: http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety
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> After sending this message I will shut down the computer. > I will take a second long walk and exercise the dog by throwing her ball > I will vacuum the broad loom. > (etc. etc.) GM >
http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway OR: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version, the scientific paper, and my story: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26 To join the supportive eGroup: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Depression-Anxiety
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