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674 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Sep 4, 2000 7:23am Subject: RE: Primal and redirecting > Dear Ellie, > I am following a primal therapy for 3 months now and I must say that combined with the redirecting of the anger and the raw food (instinctive eating for 2 years), this is very efficient (I don't even recognize myself). The work in a primal group helps me to find my feelings (that I couldn't find alone) which is necessary before redirecting toward my parents. I am still far from being post flood (or post primal) but I am progressing. The idea of redirecting toward past abusers is not specified in primal therapy. We should inform primal therapist! CF I did send it to Arthur Janov, who I'm sure already knows the importance of redirecting. And I heard from another primal therapist who is incorporating the redirecting in his therapy. But the real gift of the toxic mind theory is that all excitatory nervous symptoms (see the list in the article) are triggers to redirect, ie an excitatory symptom is a detox crisis or a primal if you want to use that term, and by redirecting when you have these symptoms you can not only greatly speed recovery but it will be less emotionally painful. It's like being in primal therapy all day long. You might say primal therapy is a slow withdrawal, whereas the self-help measures are 'cold turkey,' a fast withdrawal. But if you are not redirecting in primal therapy it is more emotionally painful than the 'cold turkey' withdrawal. Your nervous system is trying to withdraw, ie detox, all the time, (usually via the Wrong Neurons=emotionally painful detox to self and others) but if you do the fast withdrawal and REDIRECT it is less emotionally painful. As MT said you can get quickly into the calm eye of the storm. Ellie Elnora Van Winkle http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 675 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Sep 4, 2000 7:30am Subject: Re: Hurricane Detox! > Dear Elnora, > wow these stories are quite powerful and inspiring. > > I have been forwarding to many ..(near my home)...for.. people to read and support them in their healing work. > > I think it is time to you to add them on your email group list.... I will be returning soon and the people there are very interested in this (your) (our)work so will you add them to the email list? SM Yes, of course, the whole world is welcome to this list. Just tell them to subscribe by going to: http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety Ellie 676 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Mon Sep 4, 2000 8:14am Subject: Sleeping medication > Ellie, > I have a question - I have begun detox after a one month break and am pleased with my few days work but wonder one thing ... does taking sleeping medication effect the detox process? This interests me as I take them. EJ First of all if you are on sedative type medication, it is very important not to stop taking it without medical supervision. Don't worry about its effect on the detox process--just continue to use the self-help measures as much as possible during the day. Insomnia is likely to be a problem until you are post flood. Later on, if under your doctor's supervision you want to try to skip a dose, do some redirecting everytime you feel the need to sedate yourself. After an intense detox crisis you may find you fall asleep and have a drug like sleep. You might find you can skip the dose, or substitute food for a while, but if you go ahead and take the pill, no guilt, just try again at a later time. When you are post flood you will be able to withdraw under medical supervision and you will sleep when your brain needs sleep, not a drug like sleep, but restful. It is the same for alcohol or food as a sedative. After I gave up sleeping pills, I used food as a sedative for a long time. Even now if I can't fall asleep and I don't feel like getting up, I might try a few bites of watermelon, and I don't beat myself up for doing this. One of the nice things about being post flood is you can have any pain killing medication you need without fear of getting addicted. I had severe pain after dental implants, and while I didn't need as much pain killing medication as most people (my dentist could hardly believe how little I needed) I did have some Tylenol 3 with codeine. It stopped the pain, but here is no 'high' to painkillers, so no worry about getting addicted. This would be the same for a sleeping pill. There's a nice verse from the Bible that says 'no poison will harm them.' Ellie
http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety
About two weeks ago, after my Hurricane Detox event, I really started to key in on a feeling of being imprisoned. Then on TV on the History channel, they had a program on about the history of Sing Sing prison and I felt I was there. I don't feel it was a reincarnation memory; but rather definitely related to my own upbringing, being born into the teeming tenements of upper Manhattan, where the 4th floor apartment was a real prison cell. I think in the first 6 years of my life, I may have made one trip to New Jersey. Otherwise, from birth onward, I was imprisoned in the one location, a literal cell. > Then MSNBC showed conditions in present day prisons and the feeling intensified. And I realized that my leaving NYC in 1972 was a literal prison breakout for me, motivated in great part, I think, by the bit of Primal Therapy I did experience in 1971. > But now, with all I've experienced this year, I really feel the imprisonment in my own body, which is the only real imprisonment I had experienced since birth. Somehow, the compression of the NYC apartments locked me deeply within the prison of my own body and brain, where my emotions, especially my anger were put in "lockdown" and literal "solitary confinement." Have you or any others on the List reported this "prison motif"? MT Yes, yes, I was imprisoned in my crib and I wanted to be imprisoned in mental hospitals. I now know I unconsciously wanted to be imprisoned so as to have my anger at the crib imprisonment and fight my way out, just as you fought your way out of the imprisonment in that apt by your parents and the imprisonment of your mind by them and the Catholic Church. I think the mind is brilliant in it's capacity to find ways to heal. This is why I am so eager to get this into prisons, where I suspect many are trying to re-enact their own childhood imprisonment...prisons of bars and prisons of the mind. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 680 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Sep 19, 2000 7:07am Subject: RE: Relaxed shoulders! MT > << Are you having anymore major detox events, or are you finally post flood, i.e., no more major storms? A good sign is if your shoulders are relaxed most of the day. >> Ellie Ellie, > Your comment about relaxed shoulders is really important because in order to do the Parkinson-like shakes I had 2 weeks ago, my shoulders had to be tensed. I've had two more major detox events since "Hurricane Detox" and in the first one, I was not shaking at all but both arms were locked in paralyzing tension with my palms out and facing each other. I also had a fixed scowl or snarl on my face. Everything was quiet and still, but I was in a rage and redirecting. I looked in the mirror and saw this wild man look and I imagine it is very much like that of a sexual predator who lurks in the shadows waiting for his victim to come by. But as I redirected, it lessened and finally passed. > In the second episode, I started grunting, drooling, and this time my arms were completely relaxed. I was flapping them around like a spastic, acting like a monkey or a gorilla, but again my shoulders had to be tense in order to be the anchor point or fulcrum for my arms to be flapping so wildly. In the mirror, I saw myself as a drooling crazy on a mental ward somewhere. > Also, my partner noticed that my posture had gotten much more stoop-shouldered in the past few weeks and I do believe that the redirecting through these episodes is having the effect of getting my shoulders somehow to relax. I'm not there yet because I still feel tension there, but it would not surprise me if I have one last blowout detox episode where I will finally unlock what's still imprisoned there in my shoulders. MT For me the nervous tension became less and less each time I went through a detox crisis. Even now if I am stressed I may feel my shoulders tense up, but it is momentary. If I need to release anger I do so, and then relax. You may not suddenly say, Ah, I am now post flood. You may find yourself thinking there is a coming storm, and then it just never comes. You may experience some increased grief and crying at this stage. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 681 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Sep 19, 2000 8:05am Subject: RE: New York, New York! MT, > << I've finished putting my website on bulletin boards in the tall apartment buildings on the East Side of Manhattan for now, about 700 buildings, and may go back next spring to the smaller buildings. Today I'm heading for your territory, the West Side. >> Ellie> > Ellie, > I want so much to visit you in NYC and go around to a few buildings with you! I recall when I was in High School, down on 61st & Amsterdam, I loved to walk all over NYC in midtown, especially along Central Park South and down 5th Avenue. Actually, it didn't matter where. I would walk everywhere because every block would be a new adventure. > > If you get to the West Side, maybe you will hit the building where I lived for about 6 months in 1970. It was 19 W. 69th a big old apt building just in a ways from CPW. (I also was a security guard in a building on 93rd between Columbus & Amsterdam. One of the tenants there was doing Primal Therapy and she introduced me to her therapist and that's how I had my brief experience of Primal in 1971.) > > Also, in high school, walking around mid-town, I always got the feeling that I would someday leave NYC, but return in the middle of my life in triumph. Back then, I felt it would be as a famous author or scientist, but now I realize that it will be the triumph of finally being myself. > Remember, I left NYC after starting Primal. I feel like I am going to return triumphant now after redirecting enough to become myself, the me that's been there all along. >
> And one place I do want to visit with you and have our picture taken together, is in front of Bellevue Hospital, where both of us had been inmates. In fact, maybe that picture should be on the cover of whatever book I write about all this! MT MT, Sometimes I get discouraged that God is not helping me reach enough people. I begin to wonder if Jesus invented God out of a need for a good father himself. I get mad at God and tell him or her or whatever to get his act together and start helping me. Then the coincidences (?) begin to happen again. Saturday I walked by Bellevue on my way to the medical library at NYU School of Medicine, and I thought some day I'm going to go back inside Bellevue and look around at the ward where I was and also see the little kitchen where we had a laboratory and discovered the toxin in urine of schizophrenics back in 1962. It's now a homeless shelter and I thought it would be nice to have a friend to go in with me. Now I know maybe you will join me. Yesterday I began to distribute my website to West Side buildings, and I stood on 61st Street and Columbus Ave, and looked over to Amsterdam where your school was, not knowing it was there. I recall thinking someday I'll get to MT's neighborhood, which I thought was much further uptown. Tomorrow I plan to start at 69th St and Columbus Ave--I planed this before I read your email that you lived there. Why did I choose that neighborhood first. You better believe I will get to 19 W 69th tomorrow, and if it is still there, I'll slide some cards under the door for whoever might be imprisoned there. I doubt if there's a doorman. Last night a new neighbor came up to visit me. Like you he writes plays, is an actor, and has a play, Joe Fearless, off Broadway that may end up on Broadway, and I thought MT must meet him. BTW as soon as the cold weather sets in and I have more home time, your play is first on my list for reading. I need to study up on Bacon, Bohr, and da Vince first and haven't had time to do this. Why not be a famous author too when you return to NYC. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety
> I was almost going to send a different email and ask you not to post it to the group, but things have changed. I'm at the end of my fourth day of active redirecting. Up to now, I've been seeing it begrudgingly as a necessity and almost as a chain reaction that I can't really stop. I asked you about why the testimonials seemed so euphoric earlier, partly because I have not experienced any highs at all. It seemed like an unremitting vicious descent, until just a moment ago. I'm certainly not buzzing, but there seems to be an order appearing. I cried, I released, I redirected - wow. I've had 8 significant physical redirections today, all of them real but only the last one seemed cleansing - I think I've got a lot of crying to do. - CG Feel free to email me and tell me not to post to the group if you prefer. I do it mainly so others will feel encouraged by your efforts. It is good also for all to hear that this is not necessarily an easy path. You are courageous to be willing to go through the detox crises. It's much like a drug withdrawal and it's scary. In fact it is a withdrawal of endogenous drug like neurochemicals in the brain. Everyone's path is somewhat different, and I have no way of knowing how high you will feel after each detox crisis, but each time you do the redirecting you are cleansing and speeding up your recovery. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 683 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Sep 19, 2000 9:00pm Subject: SYNCHRONICITIES Ellie, If Jesus invented God the Father (as Bohr would say), then there are nothing but COINCIDENCES. But, just in case, there is a God independent of our observation (as Einstein would say) then there are SYNCHRONICITIES. We can neither prove nor disprove God; therefore, we cannot prove or disprove whether two events are merely a causal coincidences or meaningful synchronicities given this state of total uncertainty, we then should make a "leap of faith" as the French existentialists would say. I prefer to call them SYNCHRONICITIES. Deepak Chopra goes much further and calls them "synchro-destinies," teaching that we must give not only attention to these seeming coincidences in our lives, but actually invest them with strong intentionality. We should believe that there is a deeper purpose at work which we will begin to fathom -- provided we make that existential "leap of faith." MT I see. Well, I'll go with Chopra. They seem to happen just after I've asked for help. Another synchronicity? Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 684 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Tue Sep 19, 2000 10:05pm Subject: Laughter There is good reason they say laughter is such good medicine. It's a release of anger. If you watched Big Brother you saw George nearly convulsed with laughter when he realized all four houseguests voted to banish him. He kept saying, "But, it's OK," trying to forgive, and then laughed some more. At one point his laughter changed to growling, and he screwed up his face and said, "OK, who voted me out?" Too bad he doesn't realize they are parent substitutes for him, and it was his parents who banished him emotionally long ago, and now he's into food for solace. When you find yourselves laughing, good time to redirect. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 685 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Sep 20, 2000 5:16am Subject: RE: felt like a flood > Hi Ellie, > I don't think I've been redirecting enough to have a 'flood' experience but recently at my GP's we talked about an experience of a deep emotion I was going through - rejection from my partner of 10 yrs which brought back in an unbelievable way rejection from my parents. I was crying uncontrollably, unable to speak and felt pain searing through my body. Now I can think of that without the intense pain - it was almost as though I truly experienced that feeling for the first time. What is your take on my experience? EJ Sounds like a flood to me, ie a healing detox crisis during which you released some toxic neurochemicals from neurons, ie that stored repressed anger, and you redirected some anger to your parents because during the detox it "brought back in an unbelievable way rejection from my parents." The feelings of rejection, hurt, and the underlying anger, are likely to return but be less intense. Next time, try to yell and scream at your parents and get physical if possible by pounding on a bed. See the Welcome message for other ways to get your anger out. This is a periodic detoxification process and there will be more excitatory nervous symptoms that will trigger the release of anger and be opportunities to redirect. Please reread the article and watch for these excitatory nervous symptoms. You will speed your recovery by doing the redirecting more often. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety
***************************************************************** Man Killed in Blast Told To Clean Up
NEW YORK (Aug. 30) - One day after a gas explosion killed a couple in their home, city officials sent a letter to the dead husband demanding that he clean up the rubble. Reuters MUNICH, Germany (Aug. 18) - A Bavarian court has imposed a three-month driving ban on a man who was arrested drunk in charge of his motorized wheelchair. The court in Munich said Thursday the ban applied to both his wheelchair and any other vehicle. It also gave the defendant a two-month suspended jail sentence. ******************************************************************** Sounds like the NY city officials, the Bavarian court, and the wheelchair drunk need to do some redirecting. The dead guy is probably having his anger in Paradise. If you find yourself judging, try some redirecting. Ellie http://home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 687 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:16pm Subject: PS on Judgment I wanted to make clear my view on judgment in those examples of city officials and courts imposing punishment on people. Directing anger using the self-help measures at someone who has been abusive is not my idea of judgment. Even direct confrontation when done calmly, and especially if one offers of a way of recovery, is not judgment but pointing out a sickness. Criminal acts and violence are symptoms of sickness. Long before my paper back in the 20's John H. Tilden, M.D. who understood about toxicosis, wrote, "Drunkness and crime of all kinds are vicarious toxin eliminations--crises of toxemia." This doctor knew symptoms of disease were detox crises, but he didn't yet know how this worked in the central nervous system. Judgment to me is moral criticism of someone and seeking revenge in the form of punishment. This I see as misdirected anger. Morality is just another way of trying to suppress symptoms. Morality is abusive. I dream of the judges of the world handing a pamphlet to all convicted criminals. Ellie
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~er26/toxicmind.html http://www.egroups.com/group/Depression-Anxiety 688 From: Elnora Van Winkle> Date: Thu Sep 21, 2000 6:12am Subject: RE: Atlas ready to shrug? Please read this > Ellie, > There seems to be a real definite sequence to my most recent detox episodes. As I described them, it started with Parkinson like shaking of my arms, then a tremendous tense up or locking of the arms, then a complete loosening with my arms flailing like a spastic. But all three of those episodes had tight shoulders as the anchor point or fulcrum. But the 4th and latest in this sequence focused on the shoulders themselves and I feel like I was re-experiencing my traumatic birth when my mother was told by an intern to hold me back so he could run and get the doctor. I was a blue baby, suffocating to death at my birth. >
> What I experienced in the detox episode was my shoulders completely hunched up as far up as they could go. I got the strong impression that this was how I was stuck in my mother's vagina, with my head presenting, but with my shoulders being tightly squeezed. I felt like I was stuck there for a long time. >
> Then I started redirecting. I looked in the mirror and saw myself as the Hunchback of Notre Dame. I suddenly realized that, like Atlas, I had been carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders. I redirected against my mother, but then it extended to all the women in my life that came to mind. Everyone, sisters, ex-wives, women past and present. I was screaming at them all. That was the root of my misogyny and then it all came back to my mother. But from there, the redirecting went to the doctor and to the whole medical establishment which is these male dominant, patriarchal view of pregnancy as a disease as something horrifying, an ordeal that the male doctors impose on women. Then I suddenly realized that I was blaming my mother only because of her slavish submission to the authority of the male medical establishment. It was exactly the same as her submission to the Catholic Church. >
> After redirecting to her about that, I focused on the doctors -- the whole medical establishment -- as arrogant and out of touch with reality as the Catholic establishment or any other religious establishment we have inherited from our past. I realized that I had been angry at my mother for her being such a doormat and literally rolling over and playing dead for them as I was in the process of being born! What a way to come into the world! I was so angry at her that I grew up and displaced all that anger onto all other women. Yet now I redirected THROUGH my mother to the doctors who hold that Godlike position over their patients. >
> After that, my shoulders relaxed. I guess old Atlas finally shrugged, or at least relaxed and let the world roll off his shoulders. When it did, I also realized how guilty I had felt and that I dealt with my guilt over being angry at my mother but making sure I bore the world on my shoulders. That's why my posture had become so stooped lately. In the past I had learned to force my shoulders back and to make myself stand up straight and tall, but that's not what my shoulders wanted to do. They always wanted to remain in that tense stooped position. > > I'm still not fully relaxed, but I imagine the next detox event may take care of that. Right now, and ion the last few days since this "Atlas" event, I have been feeling a bit woozy, as if I'm beginning to lose my balance and black out. I don't think it's a medical problem because I ran my 2 miles the other day with no problem, but I wonder if anyone has told you about symptoms like this. I sense it is the next layer in the detox process. It's centered in my head, as if I have a headache, but there's no pain, just a wooziness, as if I'm not getting quite enough blood up in my head. > > It's like feeling fatigue or weariness, but I'm not tired or weary at all. If anything, I'm more alert and awake than ever. I wonder if it's my real self emerging from this dark cocoon that I've been wrapped in for so long. Again it's another case of me not identifying myself with whatever physiological or emotional symptoms are manifesting. That's the important point. Before, I would be consumed by fatigue, or consumed by depression, or consumed by some kind of repetition-compulsion activity, but now, it's like the negative habits are still there, but receding from my active real self. They have no power over me anymore, and of course they are reluctant to let go. It's almost like having a scab that is about ready to fall off. It still hurts to pick it, but given enough time, the scab just falls away when the healing is complete. > > There's a new "me" coming out, yet it's the same "me" that I was born with. Goddamn, this is a difficult process, and very all-consuming, but there's no going back! And after a full 3 months of redirecting now -- the whole summer of 2000 -- I wouldn't have it any other way! This is truly a rebirthing process and I think my shoulders have just emerged from behind my very large head. Hopefully, the rest of me should slide right out now and I will be able to relax my shoulders and walk upright like I was designed to do. MT There are many physiological changes going on as the central nervous system clears and becomes fully functional in keeping mind and body healthy. It's hard to pinpoint just what the wooziness is, but since physical symptoms are detox crises and healing events, just know it is part of your healing. I too had to rage against the medical profession, in my case the psychiatric profession, and it seems I still do need to confront them. Just yesterday in my project of leaving a card with my website on bulletin boards in laundry rooms of apartment buildings in NYC, I made a special effort to stop at the building where my former psychiatrist lives. He was highly codependent with me, with an admitted Rex Harrison complex, and kept me on half a dozen sedative drugs daily for over 20 years. It's not that I didn't beg for these drugs, but I still needed to have my anger at him and all the other doctors who suppressed my healing symptoms with drugs and physical restraint. This is the way they misdirect their own anger, and it's time they were offered recovery for themselves. Thank you for sharing your journey so vividly for all of us. As I walk around this city my shoulders are relaxed and my posture is upright, and you will walk this way soon. Ellie
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