From: "Paul Heelis" Subject: New chemistry jobs vacancy site To

Subject: Re: ORGLIST: Information - Revolution?
>To counteract electronical publishing standard erosion as pushed by

>the marketplace, a globally accepted open/noncommercial expandable

>document publishing standard has to be defined (inasmuch chemical XML

>doesn't qualify already), which has to have means of intelligent full

>text, structure (unique SMILES or graphs) and (IR, MS, NMR) spectre

>searching. These standards have to be implemented in OpenSource

>software, putting the development into the hands of the users. All

>this is not exactly rocket science so far.

>

>This is all very doable, and in fact being partly done already, but is

>being habitually ignored by the chemical community. Apart from

>occasional laments, the comminity seems to like things just fine as

>they are. Watching this happening for years is incredibly frustrating.

I totally agree that the retention of semantic meanings in the

data is something of a holy grail amongst some of us. Our own

contribution for example is at

http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/chimeral/ which shows how XML and CML

can be used to create an electronic article where IR, MS, NMR,

structures, etc are all "re-usable" information components,

presented (using XSLT stylesheets) in the "way the user wants"

and in the context of appropriate tools. By the way, all this and

much more will be discussed at the Chemint2000 conference

(http://www.chemint.org/ ) if anyone wants to participate)
There have been brave experiments with electronic journals that

offer this to users; J Mol Mod was one of the first, the

Internet J of Chemistry offers perhaps the most developed

integration, and projects such as PhysChemComm from the

Royal Society of Chemistry and the Arkivoc organic chemistry

journal (http://arkat.org/arkat/ ) show one way forward.

But not enough authors (yet) submit

articles to such journals! When this is analysed, one common

reason is that such "new" journals do not (yet) have an

"impact" factor, a chicken and egg situation if ever I saw

one. Ah, impact factors. What HAVE they done to our subject!!
But if all chemistry journals were of this type (and in particular

expressed in XML, so I feel) then the cost of creation of a CAS, or a Beilstein, or

an ISI or a Cambridge Crystal structure database would

(should!) drop dramatically.

The only people preventing this from happening, is US, ie

the authors and readers of the chemical heritage!

(Hope this did not sound too pompous! Is there an Internet equivalent

of a soap box?)

--
Henry Rzepa. [phone] (Office) [phone] (Fax)

Dept. Chemistry, Imperial College, London, SW7 2AY, UK.

http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/rzepa/

__________________

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:21:40 +0200

From: "peter zalupsky"

Subject: ORGLIST: dissemination of info
Dear everybody,

ever since it became feasible to push chemical data

across the world wide web many "have nots" have pinned

their hopes on this new medium. Sofar it does not look

as if the dream of easy and free information will come

true any time soon.

Recently I started to use the Napster, a software (and

servers somewhere) designed to facilitate fast and easy

exchange of music mp3 files. Perhaps a chemical

modification, a " chemical napster" would help to solve

the problem. Even if only equipped with keyword search it

would be very useful. There would be no peer review

though and thus no promotion out of file sharing, but for

many this would be a minor flaw.

Best regards,
Peter Zalupsky, PhD

Slovak University of Technology, Dept. Org. Chem.

__________________
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:41:06 +0200

From: "Paul Thind"

Subject: ORGLIST: Cost of Knowledge, Scientific Information?
Dear Friends,
Henry Rezepa has raised the profile of a topic which has been of general

concern to educators, scientists and our community of chemist for sometime.

This phenomena of the global economy moving to a more capitalist model has

been going on for sometime in all aspects of economic life and information

(in particular scientific information - high value added content) is no

exception. As a community we can do something about it. But I disagree with

some of the suggestions put forward, in particular that perhaps individuals

should start selling their manuscripts (presumably to the highest bidder).

Most Scientists in the world are employees of companies or public

institutions. One can argue that they are already being compensated for

their output. This approach will not solve any problems facing the majority

of students and scientists from around the world and may create new

problems.
What needs to happen is quite the reverse. The Scientific community needs

to organize itself through not-for-profit organizations in order to publish

research results at cost or for free.
However our experience shows that at least our own community of organic

chemists is very poorly organized and not yet sufficiently motivated to take

advantage of some existing initiatives which can benefit everyone.
Almost a year ago we established the not-for-profit ARKAT Foundation. Its

sole aim is to publish a free online journal of organic chemistry which is

available to the global community. The project is being funded by an initial

donation of a substantial sum of money from Alan Katritzky & Linde

Katritzky. The funding level is sufficient for us to make this service

available for at least 3-5 years during which time we are confident in

generating other revenue streams to make it secure for ever. The details

are on www.arkat.org .

One might have assumed that authors would be knocking on our doors wishing

to publish and share their results, with the widest possible distribution,

and at no cost to themselves or the user. This has not been the case.
We are publishing. Two Issues of the Journal are now online. Third is on

The way. But we could be publishing ten to twenty times as many manuscripts as

we are presently receiving. Not even all Professors on our Board of Referees

have submitted a manuscript!

We can help authors in publishing their books. We can help the chemistry

community to have its own cost effective databases.

We could be publishing other educational material free or at no or very low

cost in accordance with the author's wishes.

I can only challege all of you. We have a solution to these problem. Anyone

who is concerned about the high cost of journals, books, databases is

encouraged to join us in this project. I would like to hear about reasons

for not publishing in Arkivoc!

Please forgive me if I seem to be pouring cold water on a very important

debate!

Best wishes,

Paul Thind

CEO ARKAT Foundation

Schanzeneggstrasse 1

8002 Zurich
Tel: [phone]

__________________

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:03:45 +0200

From: Gianluca Sbardella

Organization: Universita' "La Sapienza" di Roma

Subject: ORGLIST: N-aminothiomorpholine
Dear colleagues,

first of all I apologize for any crossposting.

Pursuing our research lines, we recently planned to introduce a

N-aminothiomorpholino substituent in our structures.

Did you synthesized or have any reference concerning the synthesis of

N-aminothiomorpholine?

If someone else will be interested I will summarize the answers

received.

Thank you in advance,
Dr. Gianluca Sbardella, Ph.D.
Dip. Studi Farmaceutici

Universita' degli studi di Roma "La Sapienza"

Rome - Italy
__________________
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:43:48 +0800

From: "Jeffry Soon"

Subject: ORGLIST:
Dear all
I was looking the simple process about 1000 L per day of dilution =

ammonia gas into ammonium hydroxide (22-25)%. And the heat produce =

during dilution. please advise
Also, some latest recipe to turn Ammonium nitrate Fertilizer into ANFO =

for blasting rock use. Since, ammonium nitrate explosive grade is =

expensive compare to the fertilizer grade. please advise.
Anybody can show me whether there is some site like this =

question-ask-answer for chemical engineer process. please advise

Jeffery Soon Kong Hieng

South East Asia-MALAYSIA

AJ CHEMICALS SDN BHD.

Quality assurance & Technical Manager.

Bs. Che. Eng.
__________________
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:40:43 GMT

From: "Yuehui Zhou"

Subject: ORGLIST: science information
Hi, dear concerned list members
We are talking about marketing chemical information. Has anyone also noticed

that the publishers charge money on information suppliers too, the journal

article authors, for example. I was wondering what those people in

publishing houses are doing? They charge money when somebody summit an

article to them and they do that again when somebody wants to read the

article. I hope somebody from a publishing house can explain me why is that.

I would rather watch this tendency in context of globally marching

commercialization. The business spirit is infiltrating every other aspects

of human societies where were dominated by other spirits. The publishing

houses have changed their commitment to serve the community in earlier time

to today's money making. I am rather pessimistic about a converse change to

this global trend if every of us just ignore this and even join the stream.

Probably it's time to make new journals with strong commitment to the

society.

__________________
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:44:53 +0200

From: Shu-Kun Lin

Organization: MDPI (http://www.mdpi.org)

Subject: Re: ORGLIST: Information - Revolution?
Based on MDPI journal MOLECULES experience we have launched three

other journals listed at http://natsci.net/natscij.htm website.

We also plan to launch a journal Natual Sciences at

http://www.natsci.net/ soon.

For free databases published by MDPI, please try MolMall at

http://www.molmall.org/ and MolBank at http://www.molmall.org/.

You can search by substructure and only internet browser is

needed.
The problem is a sustainable way of publishing high quality

online journals. We still have to establish the online journals.

We are continuously working and improving.

Shu-Kun
--

Dr. Shu-Kun Lin

Molecular Diversity Preservation International (MDPI)

Saengergasse 25, CH-4054 Basel, Switzerland

Tel. [phone], Fax [phone]

E-mail: [e-mail]

http://www.mdpi.org/lin/

__________________

Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 11:53:50 +0200

From: Shu-Kun Lin

Organization: MDPI (http://www.mdpi.org)

Subject: Re: ORGLIST: Information - Revolution?
Based on MDPI journal MOLECULES experience we have launched three

other journals listed at http://natsci.net/natscij.htm website.

We also plan to launch a journal Natual Sciences at

http://www.natsci.net/ soon.

For free databases published by MDPI, please try MolMall at

http://www.molmall.org/ and MolBank at http://www.molmall.org/.

You can search by substructure and only internet browser is

needed.
The problem is a sustainable way of publishing high quality

online journals. We still have to establish the online journals.

We are continuously working and improving.

Shu-Kun
--

Dr. Shu-Kun Lin

Molecular Diversity Preservation International (MDPI)

Saengergasse 25, CH-4054 Basel, Switzerland

Tel. [phone], Fax [phone]

E-mail: [e-mail]

http://www.mdpi.org/lin/

__________________

Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 11:59:25 +0200

From: Jonas Nilsson

Subject: Re: ORGLIST: N-aminothiomorpholine
Simple Beilstein search (Synthesis and use of N-aminothiomorpholine):
Document Type Journal

Authors Asinger, Friedrich; Saus, Alfons; Wachtendonk, Magdalena von

CODEN MOCMB7

Journal Title Monatsh.Chem.

Language Code GE

(Series) Volume 111

Publication Year 1980

Page 385-398

Hope you know German!

/jN

Gianluca Sbardella wrote:
> Dear colleagues,

> first of all I apologize for any crossposting.

>

> Pursuing our research lines, we recently planned to introduce a

> N-aminothiomorpholino substituent in our structures.

> Did you synthesized or have any reference concerning the synthesis of

> N-aminothiomorpholine?

> If someone else will be interested I will summarize the answers

> received.

>

> Thank you in advance,

>

> Dr. Gianluca Sbardella, Ph.D.

>

> Dip. Studi Farmaceutici

> Universita' degli studi di Roma "La Sapienza"

> Rome - Italy

--

_____________________ _____________________

| Jonas Nilsson | | |

|Linkoping University | | Telephone |

| IFM | | --------- |

| Dept. of Chemistry | | work: [phone] |

| 581 83 Linkoping | | fax: [phone] |

| Sweden | | home: [phone] |

|_____________________| |_____________________|

__________________

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:48:09 +0300

From: Thanasis Gimisis

Subject: Re: ORGLIST: Information - Revolution?
I think that the list has touched one of the most important current

topics in the subject of free dissemination of chemical information.

Why Chemists can't do what physicists have been doing for all this time?

The Physics preprint archive that Eugene Leitl mentioned is the proof

of success of an article preprint and why not a structure and spectra

database which can be built directly from us, direct providers and

users of chemical information, circumventing specific Chemical

Societies or Publishing Companies.

The idea of a preprint server which receives chemical information in

a convenient format for archiving can co-exist with the current

status of variable-impact hard-copy journals and as Henry Rezpa has

put it possible formats already have been proposed. All that is

required is an extra effort from our part to transform an article to

such a format. I think that if the procedure is kept simple and

software or templates are constructed to aid this transformation it

will be adopted by a large number of researchers in the long run.

>Eugene Leitl writes:

>

>The chemical society as a whole has allowed this to happen, by

>tolerating the status quo for years, despite existiance of essentially

>zero-cost publishing on the web. (For instance, consider the

>electronical preprint archive for the physical community at

>http://xxx.lanl.gov )

>

>... a globally accepted open/noncommercial expandable

>document publishing standard has to be defined (inasmuch chemical XML

>doesn't qualify already), which has to have means of intelligent full

>text, structure (unique SMILES or graphs) and (IR, MS, NMR) spectre

>searching. These standards have to be implemented in OpenSource

>software, putting the development into the hands of the users. All

>this is not exactly rocket science so far.

__________________
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:04:34 +0200

From: "Paul Thind"

Subject: Re: ORGLIST: Information - Revolution?
At ARKAT we have tried to involve as many scientists as possible when

deciding on the procedures for publishing and the checks and balances one

needs in place before manuscripts should be accepted for publication.
First of all there are obvious differences between say a Journal of Organic

Chemistry and a Journal of Physics. Secondly authors are not uniformly good.

This applies both to delivery of format and content. One can of course have

several journals - one of which could be a dustbin for all kinds of stuff.

My belief is that any alternative journal(s) it will only succeed if high

standards remain one of the primary objectives. Let us face it, the best

scientists are not going to publish their work these "free" online journals

unless standards are kept high. One needs these guys for all sorts of

reasons.
There are also costs associated with even free online publishing. We are

finding that on average a refereed manuscripts still requires 2-3 hours of

technical editing before it can be presented with a uniform format in

Arkivoc. At ARKAT we have paid staff doing this Publication Support work.

I urge you to be realistic. Online publications need structures, support

staff, hardware, software, printing, some advertising, marketing, fund

raising, packaging, posting capabilities. But if it is done in a

not-for-profit organization all this can be done at a fraction of the cost

of REED or Elsevier Publications and if there are no shareholders the user

can have it for free. BUT MONEY FOR THE PROJECT HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE-

AND in the case of Arkat this is coming from donations, sale of chemical

samples, arranging conferences, and potentially selling other things online

and advertising.
Our second journal ARKIVOD - Archives of Organic Data is meant to fill the

gap in the database area. We can use your help in designing this database

and making sure it is made available for free to everyone.
I am very much interested in hearing from people who might want to lead this

effort in developing online spectra databases, compound database and other

useful services. We are willing to provide considerable help in terms of

software development work etc. But we need a leader!

Our motto is "Creating equality through equal access to knowledge."

Yours sincerely,

Paul Thind

__________________

Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:10:26 +0200

From: Jean-Philippe Basly

Subject: ORGLIST
Dans le cadre d'un projet de recherche intitule "facteurs environnementaux

et cancers hormono-dependants. Les flavonoides: des micronutriments

capables d'interferer dans la biosynthese de l'estradiol" l'UPRES EA 1085

recherche des stagiaires, doctorants et post-doctorants.

Les axes de recherche sont:

- la determination des proprietes physico-chimiques des flavonoides et leur

correlation avec les proprietes biologiques (action sur les recepteurs aux

estrogenes, inhibition des enzymes aromatase et 17b-HSD);

- l'=E9tude du metabolisme (cellulaire et animal) des flavonoides et les

modifications induites par ces micronutriments sur le metabolisme des

steroides;

- la synthese d'analogues structuraux.

Pour realiser ces travaux, l'UPRES EA 1085 dispose entre autre d'un

spectrom=E8tre de RMN 400 MHz, d'un couplage CL/SM et d'un appareil de

radiochromatographie.

Pour tout renseignement, contacter:

Dr. J.P. BASLY

UPRES EA 1085

UFR de Pharmacie=20

2, rue du docteur Marcland=20

87025 Limoges cedex, FRANCE

Tel: [phone]=20

Fax: [phone]=20

Email: [e-mail]

__________________
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:15:49 +0200

From: Shu-Kun Lin

Organization: MDPI (http://www.mdpi.org)

Subject: Re: ORGLIST: Information - Revolution?
Very promising: at least there is one more journal which support the idea

of MOLECULES (http://www.mdpi.org/molecules/) strongly. However,

Dr. Paul Thind is correct. The online edition is free. MDPI sell CD-ROM

and encourage authors to deposit samples and share samples.

Is Dr. Paul Thind's other journal ARKIVOD's goal will be

that of our MolBank at http://www.molbank.org/?

Shu-Kun
Dr. Shu-Kun Lin

Molecular Diversity Preservation International (MDPI)

Saengergasse 25, CH-4054 Basel, Switzerland

Tel. [phone], Fax [phone]

E-mail: [e-mail]

http://www.mdpi.org/lin/

__________________
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:41:42 +0200

From: Shu-Kun Lin

Organization: MDPI (http://www.mdpi.org)

Subject: Re: ORGLIST: Information - Revolution?
As the Editor of MOLECULES, I would like to invite chemists

to prepare and contribute reviews on this topic for publication

in MOLECULES. It may be general comments and development related to

chemistry. It can cover the following topics:

-Online journals (http://info.cas.org/EO/ejourn2.html is a starting point)

-Online conference

-Online books

-Online database

-Java
I would like to use this opportunity to thank the owner of this mailing

list. During the recent 3.5 years, I never printed any flyers.

Everything regarding our E-journals, E-conferences (ECSOC) and databases

(MolMall and MolBank) are announced by e-mail! I am grateful to all of you!

Best regards,

Shu-Kun Lin

http://www.mdpi.org/lin/

__________________

Subject: Re: ORGLIST: Information - Revolution?

From: Eugene Leitl

Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 22:39:40 -0700 (PDT)
Thanasis Gimisis writes:
> The idea of a preprint server which receives chemical information in

> a convenient format for archiving can co-exist with the current

> status of variable-impact hard-copy journals and as Henry Rezpa has

> put it possible formats already have been proposed. All that is

> required is an extra effort from our part to transform an article to

> such a format. I think that if the procedure is kept simple and

> software or templates are constructed to aid this transformation it

> will be adopted by a large number of researchers in the long run.

I think a Linux box on an .edu account would seem a good start. One

can always scale it up later.

I'd be willing to do some administration/development, scant as my time

recently is.

__________________
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:35:54 -0700 (PDT)

From: HU HONGKUN