This file contains all the messages in the Yahoo group currently located at the link below. This will allow you to read through the messages off-line
Yüklə 5,47 Mb.
|
Date: Wed Jan 5, 2000 3:53am Subject: Confronting Here's what Melody Beattie wrote about confronting, from Step Nine, "Dealing with those who have harmed us. (Codependents Guide to the Twelve Steps) "We must work through and experience fully our feelings. This is a grieving process done in stages that begins with denial and moves us into anger and sadness. Many of us in this process find we also need to work through rage. Forgiveness... before we have stuck with and ridden out our feelings, will be premature and ineffective and will require redoing...Sometimes, as part of this process, we may want to confront a person on a particular issue--not to blame, shame, or extract an apology from them, but to state clearly our new boundaries with them and let them know we've been violated. Sometimes we're wasting our time by opening our mouths. We may want to ask for guidance here." This is what Jesus said. "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou has gained thy brother, but if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church, but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican." I just got a copy of the Koran, I'll bet I find similar advice there. The biology of how we heal fully supports this. I suspect the early church stuck in the word 'church.' In the case of my aunt I shared in the last post it worked out well, and we are friends on a new basis. In other cases I have lost friends, which I believe was meant to be. I think it depends on how sick the other person is. The problem with confronting before being post flood is that the anger we have is mixed with repressed anger from childhood, and it is easy to blast someone for some minor offence. I did this to a friend and needed to make amends. Ellie
Self help for depression is on: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html 139 From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Wed Jan 5, 2000 4:11am Subject: 12 step work I mentioned the article in Pamphlet form is now on my sites and can be printed out easily, and hope you will pass it on. This is really 12 step work, and the programs would suggest not doing this alone, but I do it anyway. Since I'm spouting Bible verses here are some more. eg. don't hide your light under a bushel. set it on a mountain top...take no money...don't worry about how to say it, the words will be given to you...go to the lost sheep...heal the sick...raise the dead...cast out demons...freely you have received, freely give..."And whosoever shall not hear your words, shake the dust off your feet." I hope I'm not sounding like some cult....one who accused me of that has left the list--I did confront that--but I hope he will return. Ellie
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
Well your story sounds resoundingly like mine, 5 years ago I severed the relationship as the dutiful daughter, I will tell you I allowed myself 9mos. to grieve and then it was over. It was like giving birth to a new me, how do you live without them, when you have been used to prop them up for so long, it's not easy, but needful and I cannot tell you how much better I felt after the months of grief, no ones grief is the same I'm sure. My parents are 'waiting' my return, I've heard. It won't happen, I don't need them to feel good about myself any longer. I now realize I am separate, have separate needs and my own family that is grown now. My mother recently walked into the store I own, after 3 yrs of being in business, I was not there, funny thing, the stomach that churns when you see them or hear of them, didn't happen, the anxiety was not there, I did not obsess over her coming in all day long, we live in a small town and they drive by my house everyday, in the beginning I would purposely want to see them from a distance, which even that would churn my stomach in fear, by purposely seeing them, I worked through that fear of them, now I can see them on the street and there is no anger or fear, anxiety or distress. I can look at them passing by and feel sorry for them, I no longer feel like their victim. I faced the fear til it went away. I did alot of self talk, in those days, like when I'd hear those old records of what they'd say to me, I'd even yell, 'stop it', I'm not afraid of you, you can't continue hurting me. I did this til the anger subsided. I have often wondered when I see them, since I don't 'feel' anything, if I had shut down, but I know I haven't cause I cry easily at a sad story, I rejoice quickly at someone's triumph. I have a very tender heart over things that are touching. I now do not fall into feeling sorry for people who manipulate or control, I'm not even as angered as before, there are just a few instances where I do feel anger over certain issue such as control, but not many. Just know on the other side of this situation there is VICTORY. Sally 141 From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Wed Jan 5, 2000 5:12am Subject: Confronting Ellie, that was my next question, is after releasing the repressed anger in private, do you feel you don't have to blast away at current situations, yet there are times that you confront?! I think you just answered my question. Strangely enough I was meditating and then decided to come ask this question and there it is, In each situation I suppose you will 'just know' if it is to be confronted, say for instance the newspaper lady, it distresses me that she gets angry cause I don't advertise when she wants me to, I feel I would have a release if I spoke to her about this in a kinda way, explaining to her, all I want from her when I say no is to be polite and know I know what I'm doing-it's my business, telling me I 'have to' just infuriates me and if she continues I don't want her asking for advertising anymore. With these feelings do I still have some issues to work through in private. Sally
Ellie
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html 142 From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Wed Jan 5, 2000 5:38am Subject: Bad words? I do find it is a little difficult to say some things to the abuser in my head, like 'shut up', last night I actually was able to say 'I hate what you did to me, I hate your illness, get well' Sally I must say I have had trouble myself using the fu prayer, but I found it just came out and helped to get rid of the rage. I once got on my knees and said 'f...it all. Help me.' and shortly later was referred by someone to Caron, where I learned to redirect in therapy. I still say 'f...your disease'. I remind myself it is not the abuser --who is innocent--that we are attacking but the disease in them. I do delight in hearing the homeless outside my window use fu...just wish I could help them redirect. Ellie
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
Ellie
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
Ellie
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
Ellie
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html
I find myself not wanting the processed food, but wanting the lettuce and tomatoes and raw foods, which I've not ever been drawn to, but find myself so drawn to them. Sally Self help for depression is on: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html 147 From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Thu Jan 6, 2000 5:23am Subject: The gift of healing When the toxic mind theory came to me in January 1995 I knew it was a gift...the scientific proof that the mind can heal itself and I recall thinking God must want science to provide support for the many therapies and self help measures that were already being used by others. Here is an inspiring story from Sally about how this gift of healing was given to her years ago. Ellie Ellie, I am reading this post after I have already stated I think I might be post flood. Another coincidence? About 15 years ago, I had a lot of rage and anger, my husband said if I didn't get it under control I'd probably end up killing someone, I wanted it gone so desperately. At that time I gave my life to God, told Him He could do anything He wanted with it, didn't care, cause I had messed it up so much, new marriage, parents weren't speaking for the longest time then, cause I lived with my present husband a year, they disconnected from us, railed and accusations against me. I was crushed, beyond repair I thought, had been on drugs too, decided it was time to get my life in order, so I submitted my whole entire being to God. Well I decided to get a notebook and I for an very extreme week, I wrote down every minute detail I could remember of my childhood and everything I could remember and up til then I couldn't remember a thing, but that week of grueling pain I did, as I wrote down the incidents, I also wrote down the reason I forgave them, and scripture which I had in my head -cause my mother always quoted scripture which she thought she knew the meaning, of course she knew the law of scripture just not the grace and unconditional love of it, head knowledge. after the week of writing and crying and crying -I just can't tell you the pain that was released, it was grueling and agonizing, but well worth it, I never thought once of stopping, I knew inside I had to work it all out, get it all out and on the other side was the most intense freedom and the most wonderful love and unconditional love I have ever felt in my life, I just loved everyone, my children , were astonished at the transformation of their mother, my husband had a new wife, he said. I was a changed woman and have been ever since, I tried to talk to my parents to no avail, so we swept it under the rug, I at that time needed them to feel completely whole and for the next 8 years I studied the Bible and the unconditional love of Jesus and learned I was fully, totally accepted and loved not for what I was doing but because of whose I am, not who I am. It took 8 years to totally convince me and re-teach my mind of love by existing not by performance. So after this newfound love, my parents disconnected completely from me, over silly stuff, actually it was a mutual disconnection, I have been the better person since, actually most fears are gone since being away from them, 5 years ago going through the grief for 9 mos. like sealed the fact that I could not control their response tome, no matter how much dutiful things I did for them. I don't have rage for them anymore, although some of it came back 5 years ago and I worked through it, the present situation at that present time, I directed to my childhood of times they abandoned me, I'd scream and pound my fists and then I'd say I forgive you, you don't know what you are doing. Once to my dad on the phone, I told him, 'you don't know what you are doing to me, I was suicidal somewhat feeling that way anyways, and told him, and he said, 'go ahead, you won't, nobody cares, you've been nothing but trouble all your life.' I told him 'I had thought of suicide to prove to them how much they were hurting me by not speaking to me, for no reason that they'd give me, I was tired of trying to figure out what I did wrong, but when he said, go ahead, I completely snapped out of it, and actually started laughing, the pain just zapped away, I told him, they weren't worth my life to make a point and that it was over, until they could come to the point they realized they erred as well as me, that I was through giving myself to them as a means of a dark board and if I kept coming back and working myself into their lives, it was over til they too realized they had done something , anything wrong, otherwise I'd live another 40 years getting hurt and working myself to the point of exhaustion to please them. IT was over. Then my grieving process began. The whole 9 months I redirected my rage of present situations to situations that happened earlier and listened to ALOT of self-growth tapes based on scripture, sound scripture of wholeness, repressed anger by Joyce Meyer, and Performance acceptance syndrome by Malcolm Smith. So that's where I am today, 4 years after grief, taking me a long time huh. I do have a wonderful marriage, unlike my parents, but I would say it's almost perfect, I know no ones is -but I probably just view things differently with him. My children and I all talk things through, we vent our feelings with each other, we say anything we want to each other, if we don't agree with each other, we say, we don't and let the other think of it and don't judge or get angry at each other for not doing what the other wants, unlike my childhood. One thing is probably most apparent we respect the boundaries in each other. That has to be one point for sure, there is not manipulation or control that I can detect in them. Although because of the divorce 15 years ago I see some rage in my children and now from reading your site, I want them to read and exercise the principles of redirecting, see I was redirecting but didn't know what I was doing, it was just something that came to me to do years ago. Had to be God showing me the way, when I was so lost in it. Sally Self help for depression is on: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html 148 From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Thu Jan 6, 2000 5:43am Subject: The Pamphlet I don't think I was clear about how to print the Pamphlet so it can be folded as a pamphlet to pass on to others. If you would like to print it out this way, don't print the article as it is on: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html or http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 But scan down to just after the mention of the article in the many languages, where it says: The article in English and Spanish is available for printing out and folding into a pamphlet--please pass it on to friends who may not have computers--click on Pamphlet English or Pamphlet Spanish and click on Acrobat Reader, to download the free Acrobat Reader, which is necessary to view and print the Pamphlet. Print page one on one side of a sheet of paper and page two on the other side. Then click on Pamphlet English and Acrobat Reader if you don't have the Acrobat Reader to read and print out. Ellie
From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Thu Jan 6, 2000 5:57am Subject: Relationships My husband is one of those darn healthy guys. I think he has healed along with me, as he was the one to show me what real unconditional love was and everything I've learned he got to hear about it over and overall these years. He got therapy just listening to me, I was and am like a tape recorder, I go over and over everything I learn til I know it front and backwards. Sally Self help for depression is on: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html 150 From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Thu Jan 6, 2000 6:01am Subject: Food Post Flood It's easier to eat healthy food when post flood...the cravings for junk food should be gone. Ellie
Self help for depression is on: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html 151 From: Elnora Van Winkle Date: Sat Jan 8, 2000 7:20am Subject: Grandmothers too Ellie, I finally found the page the long version and reading it is most beneficial. Reminds me of my grandmother on my mothers side, I always remember her as a meek, quiet lady, at her funeral they stated no one had ever known her to raise her voice or get angry with anyone, I always thought of her as someone holding it in, cause I knew her pretty well, she died when I was in late teens, I have pictures of her and always remember her as holding her two first fingers straight against her lips, she sat like this all the time, isn't that something, well only when I tell you this, the few years before her death, she developed what they called hardening of the arteries!!!! yes!!! she kicked, screamed, yelled profanities, she was a hellion as one would say, complete opposite of what she projected to others. I always used to say she kept those finger over her lips to keep herself quiet, wonder how she held it in. Strong willed woman, might account for what her 13 children have suffered, why my mother can not admit her guilt or release any of her repression. I just thought you'd find it interesting about her holding her fingers over her mouth and what kind of reputation she had and then in her latter illness she exploded. I knew all this time, she was holding it in and then it just reverberated on her, all those neurons, toxins just exploded in her, releasing all that pent up anger, she died kicking and screaming. Just a few years ago, not even knowing all I know now, I said she is just holding in that time bomb that went off, you can see it on her face. She was never my abuser in any way tho, she was really kind and sweet, I remember a few times she spoke about my mother not taking proper care of me, as I was in my early teens and did have a bra yet, which she thought was very unproper, which it was. Guess she probably never told my mother tho, huh, out of fear of rejection, she had to hold in that anger. What a shame, she is probably in heaven rooting me on, I have to laugh knowing she is just on my side, saying way to go..... Sally
Ellie
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clearpathway/depression.html The same article entitled Self help for addictions is on: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579 The longer version entitled Self help for emotional disorders is on: http://pages.nyu.edu/~er26/depression.html Yüklə 5,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
|